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Skiing becomes a present for many in Tahoe


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Mother Nature delivered a package of fresh powder to Sierra-at-Tahoe on Christmas. Photos/Kathryn Reed

Mother Nature delivered a package of fresh powder to Sierra-at-Tahoe on Christmas. Photos/Kathryn Reed

By Kathryn Reed

TWIN BRIDGES – New and untraditional traditions — that’s what skiing on Christmas Day is all about.

“We don’t see snow every day. That’s what Christmas is all about,” Andrew Benavides said as he sat at the bar at West Bowl at Sierra-at-Tahoe with his dad, Mike Withers.

The two live in Orangevale, so an easy day trip to the resort on Highway 50. They had a big Christmas party the night before, invited others to ski, but they were the only two to make it up the hill.

“Tahoe is just awesome,” Withers said. He learned to ski at Sierra, so he still has a fondness for the resort.

Skiing on the holiday is becoming a tradition for the Dawsons who live in El Dorado Hills. First they unwrapped what Santa brought and then they loaded the vehicle for an afternoon on the slopes.

Six-year-old Christopher had opened a present on Monday so the family of four could ski that day, too. Fluorescent green ski pants were in the box.

Pyramid Peak popped in and out of the clouds as flurries blew and the temps never got above 40 degrees Dec. 25.

Pyramid Peak popped in and out of the clouds as flurries blew and the temps never got above 40 degrees Dec. 25.

More people than usual on Thursday were in the plaza at the base of the ski resort in footwear other than ski or snowboard boots. Anna Venhan of Palo Alto had her hood on to ward off the chilly breeze. She was focused on her book.

“It’s kind of relaxing,” she told Lake Tahoe News, especially knowing her kids were in ski school.

Being six months pregnant is keeping her off the slopes this season.

Bobbie Bennett and a group eight have been here since Sunday from the Houston area. Another nine from Houston were arriving in time for a big Christmas dinner.

“We are here because Heavenly didn’t have enough snow. We are happy here. The staff is very friendly,” Bennett told Lake Tahoe News.

Her legs were too sore to strap on equipment, but her teenage sons were out shredding. Bennett was perfectly content to keep warm by the fire pit in the plaza.

David Kim relaxes at Sierra's plaza.

David Kim relaxes at Sierra’s plaza.

David Kim of Folsom was stretched out in one of the lounge chairs at the plaza. His daughter and wife were skiing while he hung out in the sun. Knowing it had rained at their house the day before they were in search of freshies on Christmas.

Sierra did not disappoint with the 4 inches it received overnight. Stashes of powder could still be found in the afternoon — another present to unwrap.

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Comments (52)
  1. tahoebluewire says - Posted: December 26, 2014

    I am tired of tourists already. Just my 2 cents.

  2. Old Long Skiis says - Posted: December 26, 2014

    tahoebluewire, You think your sick of tourists now? Wait for the next 10 days! Snowglobe, New Years and all these ridiculous exaggreaertions by the ski resorts of snow totals, “Oh Yeah, It’s dumping!”, with skiers and boarders coming to town expecting waist deep powder. Yeah, waist deep if your a chipmunk! OLS

  3. FULL TIME says - Posted: December 26, 2014

    I will take the tourists any day, any week, any month!!!!!!!!!!!!! In case some of you don’t get it, they made our economy go round, yep they can be a pain at times but I’ll take it.

  4. Old Long Skiis says - Posted: December 26, 2014

    Yeah FULL TIME, I am quite familiar with the tourist business, having done it most of my life here on So. Shore. Our out of town visitors are what make this town go around!
    A simple tip if you’re new to town. Top off the tank in the car and stock up on groceries. This will save you from fighting the traffic come Snowglobe and New Years. Bring in an extra arm load of firewood as it looks to be getting chilly. Be prepared and ready to buckle down if need be. OLS

  5. Dogula says - Posted: December 26, 2014

    Had to go off the hill to see the 88 year old Mom in El Do Hills. Coming back home Christmas afternoon was hideous as ever. Actually, not bad till about a mile or so before Strawberry. From there up, it was the death defying snow-play slalom. Kids, pets, parents and sleds, darting between cars. All parked right under the “No Parking Anytime” signs, nobody doing anything about it. I get that it’s nice to give people a break from tickets on Christmas, but if you’ve ever driven through that nightmare, you’ll wish you could tell your family NEVER AGAIN for a Christmas visit.
    Then, for some reason, as soon as we topped out and were heading down toward town, it was bumper to bumper stop and go (mostly stop) traffic. Crazy.
    Yeah, I’m holin’ up for the next week or so. I have a Tahoe pantry and I know how to use it.

  6. Justice says - Posted: December 26, 2014

    Semi-Official Travel Tips for Bay area types for use on some advisable occasions and all around General Winter Instructions for all Tourists traveling 50:

    1. Put brain on shelf at home before leaving and act accordingly and don’t drive a 4×4.

    2. Put chains on in the road at least 10 miles before chain control and hold traffic by waving arms as getting off the road safely could be hazardous and checking road conditions isn’t easy.

    3. When the chain comes off and slaps the metal and paint off the car keep going, the rental car company doesn’t mind as it is all about you.

    4. Stop in the road frequently and look around for something and somewhere and do this often to confuse others.

    5. When renting a vacation rental, park wherever in the road, the snowplows don’t mind and welcome it. Then make noise and party and leave trash out for bears.

    6. Don’t worry about a bathroom being available on the drive past Pollock as the best and natural setting is using the turnouts in the canyon and don’t worry about having lodging in below zero weather, stay up all night in the Casinos as it is good for free drinks and lost money.

  7. Kits Carson says - Posted: December 26, 2014

    Hilarious, Justice! You forgot…..”Don’t fill your gas tank before you leave. Count on some resort up the mountain to sell you some so you and your stupidity aren’t stranded and freeze to death.”
    AND by all means do not watch the weather reports of coming storms.

  8. Justice says - Posted: December 26, 2014

    I did forget that one, and to remember that all people from the upper crust areas of the Bay and especially Marin County are royalty and all else are their servants and locals are to be treated with that in mind.

  9. Old Long Skiis says - Posted: December 26, 2014

    Justice and Kits Carson, I normaly don’t agree with you two but your Semi-Official Travel Tips were pretty good, funny and in some cases true!
    I might also add that our guests leave a minimal tip wherever they go and if you borrow the neighbors snow shovel? Don’t return it!
    If the neighbors have firewood stacked outfront? Feel free to take some! They’ll never notice the missing wood. Those things have happenend to me! OLS

  10. copper says - Posted: December 26, 2014

    “Hello, Police Dispatch? We just got into town from our home in Walnut Creek and the driveway of our rental is full of snow. The neighbors say a City plow was by a couple of days ago and left it there. Will you please send him by to clear it out? He needs to get here early because my daughter has ski lessons at 8 tomorrow morning.”

    Also:

    “Whadda ya’ mean I need chains, officer? This car’s a front wheel drive.”

    Alternate ending: “I don’t need chains, officer, my car’s a Porsche and the engine is over the drive wheels” (my personal favorite since, when I heard it, the car was at a dead stop with the rear wheels very slowly rotating on the ice).

    Lastly:

    “Police Dispatch.”

    “When’s this damn snow going to stop? We want to go skiing.”

  11. 4-mer-usmc says - Posted: December 26, 2014

    I wonder if those Bay Area people that the local businesses try so hard to attract to our town enjoy being ridiculed in these blogs by what they likely consider to be “mountain rubes”.

    And Old Long Skiis: I’m curious on what side you actually come down regarding tourists? Your remark to FULL TIME that “Our out of town visitors are what make this town go around!” and your offering of “A simple tip if you’re new to town” seem fairly contradictory to the comments of Justice and Kits Carson, along with the remarks you shared with them on tourist behavior.

    Spouse – 4-mer-usmc

  12. Old Long Skiis says - Posted: December 26, 2014

    Another travel tip for the good folks who travel to Tahoe! Feel free to use our public streets, private property ,the meadows and lakes as your own lavatory and vomitorium. What with the big days coming up, I’m sure you’ll need to use our “facilities”. Oh yeah, and feel free to throw your Pabst Blue Ribbon cans and cigartte buts in my yard and out in the street, like you have the last 2 years, OLS

  13. Old Long Skiis says - Posted: December 26, 2014

    Oh Spouse, I was just havin’ fun! Kits, Justice, Copper and OLS? Now theirs an odd crew. Am I glad we have tourists coming to town? You bet! But I feel a little good natured ribbing is allowed. No harm intended. OLS

  14. Kits Carson says - Posted: December 27, 2014

    OLS, feel free to agree with us once in a while. I won’t judge you. Tourists are tourists. They come in all kinds……….of unpreparedness and entitlement thinking.

  15. Biggerpicture says - Posted: December 27, 2014

    Funny to hear folks bash tourists, especially considering that 99.9% of all of us are at least one time in our lives a tourist, making classic tourist faux pas in an unfamiliar situation.

  16. Dogula says - Posted: December 27, 2014

    There are faux pas, then there is life threatening ignorance.
    The Sierra Nevada is not Disneyland.

  17. 4-mer-usmc says - Posted: December 27, 2014

    Old Long Skiis:

    I think that your pretext of “just havin’ fun” and “a little good natured ribbing” rings hollow, your comments come across as ridiculing and insulting to people who visit our town, and your conduct appears passive/aggressive. There are a lot of people in this town who rely on the tourists for their livelihood, oftentimes needing to work more than one job, and during the busy season will work 80-hours or more a week. They struggle to make an income so they can pay their bills, support their families, and just maybe get one afternoon off to take their families to Lakeview Commons, park for free, and enjoy a barbeque or picnic. There are only so many STR type jobs to go around in this small community and not everyone can be as lucky as you were to find a decent paying job making it possible to only need one job, following which you get a nice retirement package.

    If you don’t like the tourists just say you don’t like the tourists. It’s OK to pick a side and it’s not all that difficult. I understand that its common place for men to pick a side regarding which pant leg they’ll hang their genitals down–it’s kind of like that.

    Spouse – 4-mer-usmc

  18. Out of Towner says - Posted: December 27, 2014

    I’m staying at a friend’s house and I’m reading this blog; I find it quite funny and somewhat good natured. You don’t want to know what we say about mt. tourist who come tour our city. We did enjoy our day skiing and I’m sure all us tourist tweaked a few of you locals. We are just trying to have a good time and do respect your town.

    Spouse-4mer-usmc…. Your last paragraph is tacky.

  19. dr.seltsam says - Posted: December 27, 2014

    OLS=sub hot air level; uncommonly unwitting

  20. Old Long Skiis says - Posted: December 27, 2014

    I grew up in the tourism business here in SLT. I Like our out of town visitors. I was playing along with what Justice wrote about “The Semi-Official Travel Tips”. You see, it was meant to be a joke and I was just running with it.
    I know all too well the importance of tourism in this town as that’s what our family did with the motels and other businesses around town for over 50 years.
    Your reference to STR and my employment there of 31 years and, yes, I picked up lots of tourist’s garbage in those years and then you go on to talk about the placement of my genitals in my pants. Well most amusing, strange, but amusing. Happy Holidays, Old Long Skiis

  21. 4-mer-usmc says - Posted: December 27, 2014

    Out of Towner:

    My last comment was meant to be tacky and insulting with no pretexts of just running with a joke.

    Old Long Skiis:

    You were well paid to pick up the trash of the locals and the tourists. It was your job. And my reference to the placement of male genitals in a pant leg was general in nature, not specific to you, and it was comparative to being able to make a decision and then stick to it, rather than vacillating back and forth out of fear of offending someone.

    I was born in Palo Alto, had my first visit to Tahoe at age three, took all my vacations in Tahoe, and lived on the SF Peninsula until 2000 when we moved lock, stock and barrel to SLT. I take offense at being ridiculed and insulted by some of the people who blog on this site and I know that my Bay Area friends and family feel likewise.

    Insulting tourists is not a joke—it is demeaning and gives the impression that this community’s locals don’t want tourists to come here and don’t like them. Since the tourists, especially those with discretionary money to spend, are the supposed life-blood of this community it doesn’t make much sense to bite the hand that feeds you.

    Spouse – 4-mer-usmc

  22. SC Tahoe says - Posted: December 27, 2014

    Hug a tourist!

  23. Old Long Skiis says - Posted: December 27, 2014

    Most of the good folks of Tahoe always treat our visitng guests with kindness, generosity, giving good information to those unfamliar with the area and make it a real good “Tahoe Experience” for those who make the trek to Tahoe and the surrounding areas. I will continue to be kind, courteous, polite and greet them with a smile!
    Just as I did with our guests, like I did as a kid. If you want repeat customers, treat them nice!!! OLS

  24. admin says - Posted: December 27, 2014

    Kevin Murphy,

    Your comment has been deleted. That was so in appropriate.

    Feel free to not comment on LTN anymore.

    Kathryn Reed, LTN publisher

  25. Old Long Skiis says - Posted: December 27, 2014

    To all Lake Tahoe News readers and commenters. My 61 fst birthday is in a few days. What I want for my birthday wish is for people here on LTN to be more respectful of one another, no more insults or name calling. A healthy debate with a civil toungue? Most definetly! Not the mean spirited attcks on one individual or another.
    Kae has asked for this several times as have I, to no avail.
    Lets start out the new year to a fresh start!!! OLS

  26. LeanForward says - Posted: December 27, 2014

    Those tourists drop a billion dollars on the South Shore every year. I’m glad to see the town slammed!

  27. Haddi T. Uptahere says - Posted: December 28, 2014

    Spouse of 4-mer,
    Moved lock, stock and barrel in 2000.
    Those of us who either grew up here or have been here dealing with tourists since the days when casinos were not on every street corner in every state, have the right to joke around about the stupidity we have had to deal with over the years.
    You are a retiree to the area. You did not experience the same interactions with the masses that we have.
    Are most of the visitors to our area just normal folks? You bet! There are however, some who stick out simply because of their stupidity, arrogance, sense of entitlement and overall acting like jackasses.
    We powder their butts, take their money and all the crap that goes with it and live a life that is much better than their vacations. Poking a little fun at them is nowhere near as bad as some of the dangerous situations they put themselves and those of us around them in at times.
    OLS was simply having a little fun that was directed at small portion of the tourists that visit our area and have done so his whole life.
    By the way, which side do you make your hubby dress to?
    Lighten up Lady!

  28. Justice says - Posted: December 28, 2014

    This is true if you have dealt with tourists for many years you are fully justified laughing at their expense and antics and you should anyway to get through the seasons. A little ribbing is about as good as a rack of slow smoked ribs with a good mustard based sauce. To OLS, Happy Birthday! And remember, these debates and ideas are good fun many times and should stay that way. My advice is to write in the style of Mark Twain and that way it stays fun, there are some that just can’t help themselves when their ideas are bankrupt and false and can’t hold up and they resort to personal attack which is the lowest form of empty-headed style. And most importantly, remember, “Loyalty to the Country always, and to the Government when it deserves it.” Mark Twain.

  29. Observer says - Posted: December 28, 2014

    Thank you Haddi! Well put!
    Spouse of 4-mer really seems to be wearing her underpants way too tightly! Judge not… Poking a bit of fun at folks that behave like knuckleheads helps make the jobs of those that do have to “powder the bottoms” of the self perceived elite to smile and endure while providing a great “Tahoe Experience”!
    Happy Birthday Old Long Skiis! I hope your birthday wish comes true!

  30. Dogula says - Posted: December 28, 2014

    Thanks, Haddi, for saying it so well.
    We love having the visitors come here, and we love having them leave. We know how lucky we are to be able to live here, and we know how much we have to put up with to be able to do so.
    So, one of the funny things I notice about the visitors who stay in neighborhood rental houses is, they leave their outside lights on ALL NIGHT long. Almost all of them do it. Are they afraid of the dark?

  31. 4-mer-usmc says - Posted: December 28, 2014

    Haddi T. Uptahere and others:

    Wow! So you grew up here or have been dealing with tourists since the days when casinos were not on every street corner in every state? Well, I’m 5th generation born Californian and my family came across country from Burlington, Massachusetts in the early 1840s before California was even a state and settled in the Yuba City area. My Great-Great-Great Grandfather (who travelled across the country), my Great-Great Grandfather (who was born in Yuba City), my Great-Grandfather (also born in Yuba City), my Grandfather (born in Bangor, CA) and my Father (born in Oroville) started coming to Tahoe before it was even called Tahoe and they camped, hunted and fished. My family and myself have been putting up with interlopers to what eventually became the State of California way longer than most so I guess by your standards that entitles me to ridicule, demean and joke around about the stupidity we have had to deal with over the years regarding all you people who came to California after the 1840s. Don’t try to make me out to be the newbie to the area—unless your family arrived in California in the 1830s you’re the newbie.

    And for the record, I don’t speak for 4-mer since both of us are completely capable of speaking for ourselves. So you’ll need to direct any questions related to him directly to him.

    Like I said in an earlier post, the pretext of “just havin’ fun” and “a little good natured ribbing” is BS and reeks of rubes with a bullying mentality. I’m sick of some of you “long-time locals” who think you’re so much better than anyone else and you’re just so special. By your own standards I guess it’s my birthright to call you names and suggest that any of you whose family’s came to California after 1850 should all go back to your own State.

    Grow up people.

    Spouse – 4-mer-usmc

  32. cosa pescado says - Posted: December 28, 2014

    A quote from Dogula regarding Asians:
    “Do they ski like they drive?”

  33. Dogula says - Posted: December 28, 2014

    Wow. What a shame. Looks like OLS will not be getting his birthday wish with this crew. The people who enjoy attacking others appear to only be getting worse.
    Hope you have a happy birthday, anyhow, OLS.
    Pray for snow.

  34. Old Long Skiis says - Posted: December 28, 2014

    So much for my plea for no insults and name calling. My wish for this to stop didn’t even last but a few hours.
    I may be called many things, but one thing I AM, is persistent. So I will continue to ask commenters to be polite and gracious for those that they criticise.
    Thanks to those that wished me a Happy Birthday!
    (It’s not until tommorow)
    Even tho we’ve never met, I still consider many of you friends, who have like interests and an appreciation for this beautiful place we call home.
    Take care, Old Long Skiis

  35. reloman says - Posted: December 28, 2014

    Caso cant help himself, any time he sees something from Dog, he must post something snarky, even if Dogs quote is not really that controversial. Dog, take it as a compliment that he really cares that much about you to save your quotes for future attacks. It shows he really cares

  36. Parker says - Posted: December 28, 2014

    Yep reloman,

    Cosa gets obsessed with certain bloggers!

  37. copper says - Posted: December 28, 2014

    Hey OLS, Happy Birthday. That said, I have to attribute your hope for civility on an internet site to youthful naivety and unrealistic expectations.

    As your senior of almost 13 years, I have to point you toward my senior, Lily Tomlin, who pointed that “No matter how cynical I get, I just can’t keep up.”

    The more often you cite our friend Lily, the longer and healthier you’ll live. Peace, brother.

  38. Chief Slowroller says - Posted: December 28, 2014

    Yo Sarges Wife Who is the most famous person from Yuba City?

    Juan Carrona the mass murder?

    as some of you know I work at the most prominent store in Town, this is how I see it there are 2 types of tourist
    1— the folks with money and who enjoy spending it.
    2— the Walmart shopper.

    everyone who comes to Town looses their mind that’s just what happens.

    the folks who live here and find it they become the locals.

  39. Haddi T. Uptahere says - Posted: December 28, 2014

    Spouse 4mer,
    Nice history lesson. I am one quarter American Indian.
    Game, set match!
    Poor logic anyway.
    OLS, keep on chuggilin’ brother!
    We may grow old, but we can refuse to grow up!:-)

  40. Dogula says - Posted: December 28, 2014

    My mom (born in 1926) was 4th generation Californian. But I was born in Honolulu, so I guess I must swim home? That side came straight from Italy somehow or another, but on the other side, we came over to America in the 1600s as slaves from Ireland. Where’s my reparations?
    But none of us is actually responsible for what our ancestors did, so we really shouldn’t be taking credit for where we happened to be born or how many generations back.

  41. 4-mer-usmc says - Posted: December 28, 2014

    After Nevada’s run with gaming came to an end and the residual economic effects of their success on this CA community ended, there are still some people in this town who are determined to seal its destiny as poverty in paradise. And you don’t even know you’re shooting yourself in the foot and are likely forcing your children or your grandchildren to have to go live elsewhere so they’ll be able to earn a decent living.

    Nice work and congratulations to all you fine folks. You’ll reap what you’ve sown.

    Spouse – 4-mer-usmc

  42. dr.seltsam says - Posted: December 28, 2014

    4 mer spouse: yup. agree. the ‘locals’ referenced in this blog are by and large quasi-literate and occupy a world view a little shy of short-sighted; in true character, these role models are damn proud of it.

  43. 4-mer-usmc says - Posted: December 28, 2014

    dr.seltsam:

    I believe the following quote provides an accurate, albeit regrettable depiction of some people:

    “Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.”
    Martin Luther King Jr. (1929 – 1968)

    My best wishes to you for a Happy 2015.
    Spouse – 4-mer-usmc

  44. Haddi T. Uptahere says - Posted: December 28, 2014

    Spouse and dr,
    NOW you sound like the self serving, privledged transplants you are.
    Thanks for explaining to us quasi -literate plain old Mountian Folk how the end of Nevada’s gaming monopoly has had an adverse effect on our economy. I mean really, you didn’t need to BE HERE to know what it was like before. Let’s just turn this area into Vail and be done with it. Then your land values will be where they should be. The people who actually WORK here will have to commute from the valley, but it’s okay, Carson City isn’t a bad place to live. For them.
    Thanks again for telling us what we can find amusing or not.

  45. 4-mer-usmc says - Posted: December 28, 2014

    Haddi T. Uptahere:

    You won’t need to worry about people working here because the way you’re discouraging people from wanting to come here and spend their money there won’t be many businesses left. If this town turns into some type of Vail just look in the mirror to see who caused it.

    Once again, nice work.

    Spouse – 4-mer-usmc

  46. Haddi T. Uptahere says - Posted: December 28, 2014

    Spouse,
    What a piece of work you are. Nobody is discouraging the tourist business here. This all started as a harmless bit of humor that the people who have lived it were sharing. Then you jump in with your “mountain rubes” BS.
    Bottom line, if you weren’t a part of something, then stay the heck out of the conversation.
    Ask your husband the Marine if it’s okay to talk about Vietnam, Iraq or Afghanistan if you weren’t there.
    I’m sure you will have the last word on the subject no matter what.
    That’s what the self appointed social media police do. Hope life stays perfect for you.

  47. eco alarmist says - Posted: December 28, 2014

    Get a life.

  48. 4-mer-usmc says - Posted: December 28, 2014

    Haddi T. Uptahere:

    Thank you for explaining the rules to me. I wasn’t aware that people were not allowed to comment on this public forum unless or until they were invited by individuals such as yourself. I know my place now, I know who gets to run things, and I realize that it is you who is the social media police.

    By the way, I also have Native American blood in my lineage and my life already is just about perfect. Chew on that.

    Spouse – 4-mer-usmc

  49. copper says - Posted: December 28, 2014

    Hey Outtatowners: If you read this thread and are discouraged about moving and working at Lake Tahoe, listen to the voices. The Lake is a beautiful place to live and a challenging place to work. And vice versa.

    But if you’re discouraged by folks who joke about your ignorance of the challenges, imagine how discouraged you’ll be by the actual challenges themselves. The funny ones are difficult; the difficult ones are downright discouraging. And if you don’t have a sense of humor, you don’t belong at the Lake.

    Evidence on this forum notwithstanding.

    I lived at the Lake for 25 years. I’ve lived within 15 miles of the Lake for the last 19 years, going “all the way” back up the hill for an occasional visit when I can, and have no plans to ever move further away. If you’re not looking forward to 45 years in the mountains and the sunshine, then move over, someone will take your place. And we’ll all laugh at them trying to put on chains as well; and then we’ll help them. As usual.

    By the way, I’m writing this during a Christmas visit to Orange County, Ca. If you actually like it here in this dismal world, then you have reason enough not to move to the Lake. Don’t worry, we won’t laugh at you – we won’t even pay attention to you.

  50. cosa pescado says - Posted: December 29, 2014

    I think we need to burn the rumor mill to the ground and dance around the fire if we have any hope of moving forward. A bunch of whipper snappers are about to invade your town and are fixin to mess up your lawns. And if you haven’t heard their ‘music’ yet, you aren’t going to like it. It sounds like robots going to the bathroom.
    The kids are freaking out.

    -The Duke of Prunes
    (the name i will be taking in the new year)

  51. Bill Kingman says - Posted: December 29, 2014

    Happy Birthday today to “Old Long Skiis”!

  52. KATHY says - Posted: December 29, 2014

    Happy Birthday OLD LONG SKIIS ,Enjoy your day,Your not older ,your just wiser ,God Bless you,