Opinion: Climate change deniers on thin ice
By Phil Plait, Slate
To me, one of the most fascinating aspects of climate change denial is how deniers essentially never publish in legitimate journals, but instead rely on talk shows, grossly error-laden OpEds, and hugely out-of-date claims (that were never right to start with).
In 2012, National Science Board member James Lawrence Powell investigated peer-reviewed literature published about climate change, and found that out of 13,950 articles, 13,926 supported the reality of global warming. Despite a lot of sound and fury from the denial machine, they have not really been able to come up with a coherent argument against a consensus. The same is true for a somewhat different study that showed a 97 percent consensus among climate scientists supporting both the reality of global warming and the fact that human emissions are behind it.
Powell recently finished another such investigation, this time looking at peer-reviewed articles published between November 2012 and December 2013. Out of 2258 articles (with 9,136 authors), how many do you think explicitly rejected human-driven global warming? Go on, guess!
One. Yes, one.
Thanks you LTN for sharing this article. The “97%” number is out of date, the new number is “99.9%” of all active Climatologists believe in man-made climate change. Facts matter & we need to ignore the conspiracy theorists.
I guess there will always be those that see $$$$$$$$ to promote this creation. As long as the geo political scammsters are sucking money, there will be the drum beat and no real science or honest discussion. Just confussion on a myriad of topics and finger pointing while the algore’s of the world keep jetting around with their entourages. Let’s see, global warming didn’t work, now it is climate change , I wonder what the next distraction will be. Ohhh, wonder how those “Scientists” are doing that got stuck in the Arctic Ice???? Might take a read http://scienceandpublicpolicy.org/originals/risking_lives_to_promote_climate_change_hype.html
“As long as the geo political scammsters are sucking money, there will be the drum beat and no real science or honest discussion.”
Says the person that a few months back made the statement that Pakistan was the mortal enemy of the US.
“The saddest aspect of life right now is that science gathers knowledge faster than society gathers wisdom.”
― Isaac Asimov
Marlene, gather wisdom, and be in a hurry.
It’s too bad the idiots running multi-billion-dollar global corporations like Coca-Cola, Nike, and Walmart don’t get to read the brilliant comments us Tahoe locals are privy to courtesy of LTN. They ACTUALLY believe climate change is real. What fools!
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/01/24/science/earth/threat-to-bottom-line-spurs-action-on-climate.html?hp&_r=0
Unfortunately, even this article, including the continued nay-saying response, is part of a few each day that point out how many deniers there are, but offer very few articles on what can be done about it. . . there are a number of things that can & should change, but as it may in fact rearrange the way business is done, therefore the financial base that capitalism (and the ‘rich getting richer’) is based on, the “answers” are not even considered. . .given that the wealth keeps rising to the top, the “vast majority” could do themselves proud, and take matters into their own hands, as this is at the cultural foundation level – and it costs no more or no less to understand either the “what” or the “why”, if only the press would take more aim at reporting possible solutions. . .
One of the folks presenting a survey at the South Shore Room talk by Dr. Collins of UC Berkeley on the latest IPCC report included that option as a response to one of his questions – and a good one to note. . . and as the tail-end of the Slate article shows, the science does not care if “you’re black or white, Republican, Democrat or Independent, nor certainly whether you’re rich, poor or in-between” – used partially to say, as I’ve been saying more often of late: we are in fact fast approaching a point where it will not matter what side you choose to be on, in taking care to find out the source of the material before you believe it or not (it’s “bias”), as 99.9% is a pretty reliable indicator of serious changes to come. . .whether you’ve done something about it or not. . .
That’s why I chose the word ‘sobering’ in seeing the latest version presented. . .
OK, so let’s just say that Global Warming is real, and man caused, contrary to reality.
What are YOU going to do about it?
Are you going to give up travel by air, automobile, or bus? Are you going to give up heating your home? Are you going to give up your food supply from farm to market?
The answer is a resounding NO. So until the “Believers” come up with a “Solution” to their fabricated problem, I have no belief in their theory.
Just to add A.B., and you’re basically asking what I’ve always asked, what are you going to do to get China, the biggest polluters and purchasers of our debt, to go along with any program?
And great! Since it’s all such an unquestionable fact, no need to keep spending taxpayer dollars researching it!
A.B:
Good question !
Your suggested ‘answers’ are not rhetoric (at least for me), but the question posed makes the case I brought up. . .not very many people will give up what “they” are doing, always wanting someone else to take it up so that they don’t have to. . .if they ever think about it at all, as you fortunately have. . .think about it some more ! . . .
And to Parker (adding to A.B.) China is beginning to “see the light”, none too soon given their size, and they’re doing it much sooner than we have in proportions of time. . .BUT: it does not make any sense not to know, whether China (or India, or ?) goes in a right direction or not – if it only provides an excuse for not doing anything at all on your part. . .including, as you say, too many tax dollars already spent in corroboration, but not enough in making a difference in averting their conclusions.
Our complete absence of a comprehensive Energy Policy, for example. . .
I walk, ride a bike, and take public transit, sometimes in taking the train to conferences elsewhere, usually getting either a ton of work done or in meeting people from all over – in “leaving the driving to (them)”. . .
As to “food” – that one was a little rhetoric – but, as the average pound of food in this country travels 1,500 miles, the ideas of growing closer have been part of my work here, as it has for the entire USDA these days…
Thanks for thinking at all. . . [Belief versus reason will not work anymore, if it ever did]
Gary, you hit the nail on the head. The Warmistas want others to sacrifice. I am actually a conservationist, but my actions in the big scheme of things mean nothing. You cannot force this on to people, it’s their choice. And I do not for a moment adhere to the narrative that global warming is caused by human activity.
AB and Marlene must be President and Vice-President of the Flat Earth Society. Sorry to say such ignorance does not surprise me anymore.
Marlene and AB,
Among the 99.99% of peer-reviewed scientific articles that all confirm that fact — not narrative, not opinion, not belief — that climate change is occurring, and caused by the burning of fossil fuels, this overview by the American Meteorological Society provides a good overview of the basic science:
http://www.ametsoc.org/policy/2012climatechange.html
Snippets: “Warming of the climate system now is unequivocal, according to many different kinds of evidence. Observations show increases in globally averaged air and ocean temperatures, as well as widespread melting of snow and ice and rising globally averaged sea level….Climate is always changing. However, many of the observed changes noted above are beyond what can be explained by the natural variability of the climate. It is clear from extensive scientific evidence that the dominant cause of the rapid change in climate of the past half century is human-induced increases in the amount of atmospheric greenhouse gases, including carbon dioxide (CO2), chlorofluorocarbons, methane, and nitrous oxide.”
I encourage you to take a few minutes to read it, and to understand that this is a serious issue that will continue to affect us all, whether you “believe” it or not. I’d be curious to read your specific critiques of this science, which among scientists is no more controversial than photosynthesis.
In terms of solutions, there are many. California is doing more in the realm of energy efficiency and renewable energy than anywhere else in the U.S., and most places in the world. But much more needs to be done. Taxing carbon more, and work less, would be a good start. It’s a solution supported across the ideological spectrum. In general, we need to power our cars, homes, buildings, planes, etc with sources of fuel that create a much lower carbon footprint — sun and wind vs. coal.
Time to move beyond argument, and on to solutions. Anything less is a huge disservice to our kids and grandkids, who will ask what we did when we knew so much was at stake.
Climate change is real and as the huge majority of scientists have written in an enormous amount of studies it is caused by man made pollution of the earth. Atmospheric, the oceans, chemicals released into the environment… It’s a huge mess and hopefully we can reign it in or at the very least slow the progress of what will prove to be the end of life as we know it.
But you know what convinces me even more of this than the mountains of scientific evidence? My 90 year old Dad, Old Long Skiis Sr. We talk every day and the weather comes up every time. My Dad is as sharp as a tack and has never seen the weather like we’re seeing now.
Major action needs to be taken immediately. Reduce emissions, stop burning coal, stop the Keystone xl pipeline, stop the fracking, stop the huge amount of oil spills and leaks. Look for more alternative energy. Solar and wind power are a good start, but we need much more to save a dying planet.
Why??? Because Old Long Skiis Sr. and Jr. said so, thats why!!!
3 Words:
“Make the Choice!!”. . .
You’re right: no one is forcing you to, no one is charging ‘admission’ for you to participate. . .
But the cost will be heavy, even as the price to do something is ‘nil’ . . .you’re right; it’s up to you. . . knowing that YOU can make a difference is golden. . .
I’ve been politically opinionated all of my life – even as a grade schooler in the ’50s. I’ve been politically active, self-compromised somewhat by holding government jobs, since I was (honorably) discharged from about five years in the military in 1965.
Now over 15 years retired from almost four decades of serving the public – retired, I should add, at substantially less than the “sweet” retirement settlement so many of our myth loving conservatives might have it, I participate by campaigning in as many elections as I have time and energy to handle. I don’t expect to be around for the long term future, but I hope to go out contributing.
But with children in their forties, and grandchildren in their teens, I’m dismayed by the fact that they have all been reduced, in one way or another, to serving the folks who pay them for, not only their work and production, but also for their philosophical subservience.
Ayn Rand and her ignorant followers may yet prove victorious, but not without a major fight from us “ol’ guys” who love both our country and the folks who believe strongly in personal freedom. If I can radicalize just one grandchild, I’ll die a happy man.
I doubt if posting on Lake Tahoe News will contribute much to my goals. But it feels good.
Last week you learned about the ‘false dichotomy’ logical fallacy. Well, some of you did.
” So until the “Believers” come up with a “Solution” to their fabricated problem, I have no belief in their theory.”
It looks like next week we will need a short lesson on the scientific method, and hypothesis testing. Seeing that people are saying ignorant things like:
“And great! Since it’s all such an unquestionable fact, ”
We need to address the epidemic of scientific illiteracy in this country if we are going to solve any of these problems. That might be too big of a task. Let’s start with basic logic and reasoning.
Scientists trapped in sea ice is not evidence. Logical fallacies are unacceptable and people who use them do not deserve to be part of the conversation.
Maybe the deniers just want to rant and regurgitate lies. Fortunately for them, there is no barrier to entry on the internet.
Again, so there is no specific plan to deal with it! China may be ‘seeing the light’. But so what? What way is there to guarantee, or enforce, their participation in any program?
I hear there are plans. But what specifically are they? Taxing various forms of production? So then production shifts elsewhere?
So it’s clear, I am not for pollution/flourocarbon output! I am totally open to hear realistic ways to eliminate it!
And to everyone that name calls and belittles those that question this story, gee, are you not aware that Slate is a bit of biased news source?
How is the following statement biased:
“13,950 articles, 13,926 supported the reality of global warming. “
I hate it when people say “China & India aren’t doing it, so why should we?”
Since when is America not a world leader? We have to lead the way, if we don’t, nobody will follow.
Any nobody is suggesting that we all give up cars and walk everywhere. We just need to reduce pollution, not stop it altogether.
Granted, the page has perhaps already turned, given the journalistic program LTN is. . .’jour’ is French for daily. . .
But the breadth of answers is too interesting not to comment again: “Parker” asks for a ‘guarantee’ or ‘enforcement’ from China, presumably so he can decide to change his mind. . .but of course that is exactly the problem: no ‘one’ wants to be the first “on-the-dance-floor”. . .besides “you & I” know that even if the Chinese owned up to their part and Parker believed it, that doesn’t mean that Parker will agree to what’s going to be necessary. . .
For the record, there will be NO “government program or legislation” that will do it, nor will there be a NEW “technology” that will do it either, in those cases where someone wants someone else to figure it out for them, so they can then of course disagree about being “told what to do” – or they can feel comfortable that someone else is doing it, so they don’t have to think about it all. . .it will be the cumulative & aggregate shift from each & every person that will make the difference: that why above I easily said 3 words:
“Make the Choice !!” – your, your offspring’s, and their offspring’s life will depend on it. . .
The only “science” the Global Warming alarmists can follow is clearly Science Fiction.
January is about to go down as the coldest month in a century of record keeping throughout North America.
But don’t let that stop you from advancing the narrative that Global Warming is killing us all.
Another denialist who doesn’t understand the difference between weather and climate.
Shocking. You have no idea what you are talking about.
Let me guess, you read an article that linked the The Daily Mail for you ‘coldest month in a century’ wording.
Tahoe Mom, in a moral way, you truly make a good point! If you want something done, one should lead!
But in reality, does not the U.S. and Western Europe lead by having democratic systems and by respecting basic human rights, such as freedom speech? Does the rest of the world follow?
So if the human caused climate change narrative is correct, if it’s all so certain, what good will it do to just have a few of the countries institute a program that not all, including the biggest polluters, will have to follow?
If the narrative is so accurate, all that will happen is production will shift as the U.S. is put at a competitive disadvantage. And the underlying causes of the ‘crisis’ will not have been dealt with!
So there is human caused climate change taking place, or there isn’t? Either way, what’s the plan, not the dream, to solve it?
Parker, your commentary on this subject is exactly why I am so opposed to the Warmistas. These people live by the old adage of “do as I say, not as I do”. They’re all hypocrites.
Take a good look at their leader, Al Gore. Mr. Gore flies a private jet to Davos, Switzerland this week to speak about the pending doom of planet earth due to Global Warming. Of course, never mind that he flies around the globe in his very own private jet.
All they want is more government. Government is not the solution to our problems, government IS the problem.
If Global Warming was man made, how do you explain the medieval warming period or the little ice age that followed?
If Global Warming was man made, how come you’re heating your home with fossil fuels, driving around in an SUV, flying to all corners of the world, using electricity generated by coal burners, and buying tons of consumer junk made in China?
Sorry, but cutting back a little on “pollution” isn’t going to stop Global Warming, Climate Change, or Global Cooling, the latter of which was what we were told was happening 35+ years ago thanks to burning fossil fuels.
It’s all a bunch of bunk with no scientific basis but science fiction and manipulated data.
Really? Explain that to you?
You don’t understand the basic definitions related to this matter.
Do you own homework. Demonstrate that you have a basic understanding.
Parker knows the difference between weather and climate. A year ago he was saying that the previous winter was evidence against climate change, but now understands how ridiculous that was.
Cosa , you put words in my mouth I didn’t say!
At some point, on some article, you brought up the previous years winter weather as evidence against AGW.
‘How many weathers in a climate’
Fish, I for one know that the climate changes. It has for millennia. What I do not subscribe to is the narrative that the climate changes due to mankind.
Get a grip pal, you’re not bigger than the earth, and you have no ability to change the climate.
‘the climate has always been changing’ is the laziest ‘argument’ there is.
You can’t even discuss the science. Unwillingness, intellectual inability, you know you will lose, etc. If you can’t/won’t use science to talk about science you should excuse yourself from the conversation.
Bk your rock is calling
HEY AB! So. If cigarettes cause lung cancer your solution would be to do nothing and keep on smokin’? Really? People and actual Scientists ARE doing things to curtail Global Warming; you obviously are not and don’t care.
HEY MARLENE! The only “scammers” are the Oil/Coal Corporations that have the most to loose from alternative energy and energy conservation.
HEY BITTER! We are talking about the entire planet, not just North America. And YES the Earth is getting warmer with or without your knowledge. Explain why glaciers globally are dying and not growing. Explain why Greenland is loosing 50 Cubic Miles of ice per year and not growing? Explain why huge chunks of ice 200 feet tall and the size of Rhode Island are breaking away from Antarctica? Explain why Ocean levels are rising? You can’t. And all you can do is whine and blame the Scientist that actually study Climatology for doing their jobs. Why not simply blame the Oil/Coal industries for doing their job… selling more Oil/Coal?
COSA! You are absolutely correct about the Scientific illiteracy in America becoming an epidemic problem. What I don’t understand is how so many Americans can claim there was not history prior to 4000 bc? How so many Americans go to Doctors (Scientists) everyday and rarely question their motives or credentials? How so many Americans believe that the Oil/Coal corporations are somehow working to solve Global Warming by selling more of their product? Ignorance is not bliss.
I’m happy to learn that if there is no plan to address an issue then the issue doesn’t exist. Be happy, cancer is cured.
I will ask the question again to all who embrace the theories that Priuses, plastic bag bans other such band aids are going to save the planet. The question is, if every country and every individual in the world today started to implement every anti-global warming measure tomorrow, how long would it take before an actual measurable change would take place? And please before you answer be sure to take in the current population growth and the natural resource use that would inevitable until we have population decline.
I myself believe that global warming is a valid issue. I also question what the eventual outcome will be. I still believe in the eventual Ice age theory once the planet becomes a seething humid jungle with the clouds produced by the increased evaporation off of the all the new water we will have.
I protested in the 60’s and 70’s when a difference might of actually been made and we would not be experiencing it to the degree we are today. No one listened to the tree hugging environmentalist “hippies” back then. Nor did they care. Now it it trendy, too late and I no longer care.