Placer County deputy gunned down
By Sam Stanton, Ryan Lillis, Ed Fletcher, Darrell Smith and Richard Chang, Sacramento Bee
Danny Oliver’s last shift ended with the veteran Sacramento sheriff’s deputy doing something he would have done countless times before in his career, walking toward a car to see what the occupants were doing on his beat.
The 47-year-old father of two never made it to the driver’s window Friday. At about 10:30am, a man armed with an AR-15 rifle aimed out of the car from the parking lot of a Motel 6 at Arden Road and Ethan Way and opened fire, killing Oliver with a shot to the forehead.
Over the next six hours, authorities say, 34-year-old gunman Marcelo Marquez eluded hundreds of officers from Sacramento to Auburn in a crime spree that left Oliver and Placer County sheriff’s Detective Michael David Davis Jr. dead. A third Placer deputy, Jeff Davis, was wounded and later treated and released from a hospital. A motorist was in serious condition from a gunshot to the head.
The carnage ended around 4pm Oct. 24 when Marquez meekly surrendered to deputies who converged on a home in Auburn where he had been hiding for hours as one of the largest manhunts in Sacramento history unfolded.
Marquez, who public records indicate is from Salt Lake City, was expected to be transferred to the Sacramento County Jail late Friday along with a woman who authorities say had accompanied him on part of his rampage.
Authorities say the couple were responsible for a drama that forced thousands of schoolchildren to spent the day either in lockdown or sheltering in place, left neighborhoods evacuated and forced sheriffs from Sacramento and Placer counties to step forward with somber announcements that they both had lost deputies.
Read more here: http://www.sacbee.com/news/local/crime/article3348287.html#storylink=cpy
The thin blue line takes another hammer blow. Though temporarily buckled, it will not break. Prayers for families of the fallen and injured. I’d like to think the perp will face the justice he so deserves, but although we in California still have the death penalty, we have apparently given up on actually applying it.
Yes, with any luck this parasite will get the death penalty, which in this idiotic state is nothing more than life in prison. He will be a hero in the eyes of the other parasites in prison. They should have ventilated him when they had the chance.
The Sheriff of Sacto stated that even though there may be many of you who wanted him killed, “No, we are not like that”. Obviously he was in front of the media. He has to know that EVERY member of his dept. and Placers wanted him dead, so why even make that statement?!
This is a terrible tragedy and a blow to our entire community. However, it is important to recognize the courage and professionalism of the Placer County Sheriffs Deputies who set aside their intense personal feelings and captured the suspect alive. Sheriff Bonner said it best: “The suspect is in custody, as you know,” Bonner said quietly. “I think there’s those people who would say, ‘Well, you know what, I wish you’d killed him.’ “No, that’s not who we are, we are not him. We did our job. I’m incredibly proud of the men and women who go out there every day and put their life on the line, and today this organization, this family, has suffered a horrific loss.”
Gov. Jerry Brown issued a statement Friday night about the fatal shootings
Pulleeeze spare us your dribble Moonbutt. This could have just as easily been one of your early Felon releases.
GUNS SUCK
go: SERIOUSLY?? You’re going to blame this rampage on the gun?? If you are serious, then you are more of an idiot than I gave you credit for.
Dirt bags suck! Not guns.
And while this was happening another school shooting was occuring in washington state.
Yup, guns in everyones posession leads to just more sensless killings.
Way to go NRA, You must be so proud…
I rest my case. Thank you for proving me right.
If a gun in more people’s hands supposedly make us a safer, politer society, then why do law enforcement now wear bullet proof vests?
then why do law enforcement now wear bullet proof vests? (Hint: They’ve been wearing them for decades)
Once again….because dirt bags will ALWAYS get guns so the Police need additional protection in order to protect communities…..you people that are scared included.
Those of you afraid to learn how to use one or too afraid to have them in your house, you WILL be a victim with no defense. Good luck with that one.
“Those of you afraid to learn how to use one or too afraid to have them in your house, you WILL be a victim with no defense. Good luck with that one.”
Sorry Kit, I, unlike you and the NRA, don’t buy into a fear based probability of outcomes.
Kits Carson. Are you saying if I’m not armed, I’ll become a victim of someone who is armed?
Okay, I have an old shotgun from my duck hunting days here and in Nevada. I’m supposed to carry that around in constant fear of an intruder?
When I was a kid here in SLT the local cops never wore bullet proof vests! Thats more of a modern day thing.
I’m not against guns, except when my neighbor tried to shoot her boyfriend in the head(she thankfully missed).
I keep my guns safely stored away and haven’t pulled a trigger in over 20 years, just so you know. OLS
Level: No fear! Just prepared is all.
OLS: Never said to carry a gun around. Just keep them safely handy in your home. Perhaps back in your day the vests were not as needed as today. My Grandfather was an LASD Dep back in the day and never had to even pull his gun. People respected them. That was then.
Escalating violence among humans has prompted more and more protection for those who are first responders to the unarmed or unprepared or simply don’t know how to handle a particular situation. It only makes sense we provide those hero’s with all the protection they need. In most cases the violent act is over by the time the LEO’s arrive. That’s when the unprepared criticize them for taking too long to save them. Just say’n.
Gaspen the death penalty is draconian and it does not deter crime. Your 18th century blood lust does not represent the people of Placer County. I hope the police are more level headed and solution oriented than you are.
“Kits”:
Some people have no reason to have a gun, anymore than some have no place at a keyboard – wrong ammo, poor aim, wrong ideas. . .
Adding fuel to a fire never puts one out. . .
Doesn’t detour crime because we never use it!!
I don’t include you in my comments about how the LEO’s feel. I don’t care what you think and I’m sure you’re not a clear representation. Back to your sand box.
Garry: Wrong ideas only because you don’t agree with them. Typical.
This one is for Kit Carson…
Gov. Jerry Brown issued a statement Friday night about the fatal shootings:
“The brutal murders of Sheriff’s Deputy Danny Oliver and Sheriff’s Detective Michael Davis are a tragic reminder of the sacrifices we demand of our peace officers and the incredible courage they display as they protect our communities. Anne and I extend our deepest sympathies to the families, friends and colleagues of these two brave public servants. We also are mindful of the officer and bystanders who were wounded or terrorized by today’s terrible events.”
and you want to blog about butts? Look in the mirror Kit.
Wow Rock….you rock. Wonderfully thought out comeback. A couple seconds worth?
GUNS SUCK, REALLY !
An excellent piece in CNN.com today, and this excerpt seems quite pertinent in relation to folks like Gaspen Aspen, Justice, and Kits Carson:
‘When middle-aged “open-carry” activists walk into Kroger with semi-automatic rifles slung over their shoulders, they aren’t exercising their rights with an ethic of responsibility. They’re trying to intimidate their way to respect and esteem. They’re acting out, demanding attention and rejecting curbs on their desires. That’s not being a citizen. It’s being a toddler.’
“Back to your sand box.’
Are you implying that I am childish and therefore ignorant and your intellectual inferior?
‘Doesn’t detour crime’
HAHAHAHA
Oh the ironing⸮
Considering a local deputy was recently shot at and now this attack shows the violent crime waves in action are becoming even worse and local. These are people who don’t care and there are thousands of criminal aliens that are coming in across an open border as this gunman probably did. Might be a drug cartel hit man. His guns could be from drug gangs or stolen, his shooting was not something normally seen in a firefight where shots are usually all over. There is much more to this, very likely other murders, bank robberies etc. This guy was why our police are often outgunned and need all the equipment they can get. This is also why gun laws will not work against determined armed killers who don’t care what laws they are breaking or who they kill.
Justice, Aspen, I am over these ignorant fools. You can’t fix stupid. These will be the first whining, sniveling fools blaming LEO’s for not getting to THEIR problem in time. I have zero sympathy for them. I do have respect for OLS. Though we don’t agree, at least he has some wisdom.
I’m on to real fish to fry. These guppies bore me.
EEEEHHHHHhheheheheeeee!!!
Kits, if your gauge for respecting someone is solely based on owning/not owning a gun you have some serious issues.
Step away from the altar of the gun and thrown down your yoke of fear!
In this shooting, two Deputies are dead, one Deputy is wounded, a citizen is seriously wounded and the gunman is alive.
America has about 270 Million guns.
America has the highest rate of gun ownership on the planet at 90 guns per 100 citizens; Australia has a rate of 15 guns per 100.
America is ranked 13th in gun related deaths with 10.3 per 100k of population; Australia is 55th with a rate of .9 deaths per 100k of population.
Australia has many more restrictions on sales, licensing and ownership of guns; especially semi automatic guns.
America has had 75 school shootings since the massacre at Sandy Hook Elementary in November 2012 in dozens of States including the one yesterday in Washington.
Sandy Hook Information:
Adam Lanza first shot and killed his Mother, Nancy, with a Savage MKII-F .22 caliber rifle.
He then went to the Sandy Hook Elementary School where about 450 Kindergarten through 4th Graders were enrolled.
He took with him: a Bushmaster XM15 Semi Automatic rifle, a Glock 20SF Semi Automatic pistol, a Sig Saur P226 Semi Automatic Pistol, a Izhmash Saiga-12 shotgun, ammunition and 30 round magazines.
He shot through the glass doors of the school.
He shot six adult school staff and twenty children ages 6 to 7 years old. Most of the victims/children were shot in the head using the Bushmaster XM15.
A girl hiding in a bathroom with two teachers told police that she heard a small boy in the classroom screaming, “Help me! I don’t want to be here!” followed by Lanza saying, “Well, you’re here” followed by more hammering sounds.
Lanza finally took the Glock and fired it in his own head.
The 2nd Amendment:
“A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.”
The Preamble to the US Constitution:
We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.
Posterity, all future generations of people.
The brave policemen and innocent bystanders were ambushed with an AK-47. Can’t we at least make AK-47 and similar assault weapons illegal and then buy them back from their owners to get them out of circulation?
Kit carson is a chicken
Simply remember laws are for the law abiding, criminals don’t plan to obey laws so a hundred new laws will not stop one determined murderer and most criminals never legally buy guns, they are stolen, smuggled across the border by drug gangs, taken in burglaries etc. This murderer who doesn’t speak English as reported in the Bee obtained his guns somewhere and his intent was to kill people and his plans were stopped by alert deputies in Sacramento County who noticed them and what he might of done and what he might have been planning is unknown, but could have been anything from murders to bank robberies .
a majority of guns are semi automatic, pistols included with rifles the only ones that arent are bolt, pump and lever action. Guns will always be part of our society because people will never be able to get a constitutional amendment banning them
today we went to the shooting range in Carson City it was busy with folks shooting targets and everybody was having a good time.
most of you folks forget that the Police shoot innocent people everyday, here in America.
I am proud to be an American and own as much and as many of whatever I want.
Now the Bee reports that the murderer is an illegal alien, has been deported twice before, has criminal convictions for narcotic sales, uses several names, and has what sounds like a cartel gang tattoo on his chest. With the border wide open this is what is coming in unchecked. Total insanity by politicians that are guilty of serious criminal malfeasance.
Yep. It came out that the murderer was a TWICE deported illegal alien.
But you guys would rather blame the guns than deal with the real problem. Doesn’t fit your agenda, does it?
The shooter is an illegal alien.
Try explaining how our open border policy is such a great thing to the families of both victims.
Hi all, hate to interupt your false narrative with facts.
1) guns are a problem in our society. over 32,000 people are killed a year in the U.S. You know infinitely more people than have died from catching Ebola in this Country. Hint, the gentlemen in Texas came into this Country sick and two nurses that caught in treating him have survived. Fatalities by guns in the U.S. far exceeds the per capita rate than any other industrialized democracy in the world – yeah we have an unhealthy obsession with guns.
2) immigrants including illegal immigrants are underrepresented in the crime statistics, including violent crimes. This does not mean they do not commit crimes, such as murder, but they do so less often the bona-fide U.S. Citizens. Case in point, the vast majority of police murdered in the line of duty are by U.S. citizens, the vast vast majority of mass shootings (e.g, those at schools, theaters, military bases, public spaces, etc.) are by non-terrorist, U.S. citizens. (be sure and read this correctly, I did not say no incidents are carried out by terrorist or illegal immigrants, simply that the official statistics list these incidents as nearly always being carried out by non-terrorists U.S. citizens.
So two things can be true, guns can be a problem, and even though U.S. citizens are most often involved in murdering police, illegal immigrants (which do so less often) can also be murderers.
Rick
Rick, as rosy as your #2 statistic makes things sound (though it happens to be false) it doesn’t negate the fact that if that particular illegal hadn’t been here, 2 police officers would still be alive, and the other people wouldn’t have been wounded. Why add to the crime problem by allowing in criminals from other countries???? That’s ridiculous.
We don’t need more laws, we don’t need to tighten gun regulation. We need a government that enforces EXISTING law, and protects Americans from vicious criminals. Otherwise, that government is worse than worthless. It IS criminal.
Dog, BC, Justice, was the shooter at the school in Washington State an illegal alien?
Big, you’re not LISTENING. I said, WHY add other countries’ criminals to the problems we already have? Don’t we have enough of our own?
Why won’t this government enforce its own laws? Because it’s SO much easier to simply make new laws! We have so many laws on the books that any one of us could probably be arrested for SOMETHING! But this government picks and chooses who it wants to punish and who it wants to let slide.
When is enough enough? This Governor is guilty of criminal negligence and ignoring laws for political gain, hands out drivers licenses to illegals, keeps the borders open for cartel drug gangsters with many murders already before they get here and this is the result. This is at a point that criminal indictments should be handed down to those responsible. If people want this to get worse keep electing liberals and it will! Vote all liberals out!
I am disappointed in the right wing for taking so long to interject their xenophobia into this discussion.
WHAT xenophobia, Fish? Nobody has said a bloody word denigrating Mexican people. We’re talking about LAW and CRIMINALS.
YOU are the bigot. You constantly accuse everybody else of it. Look at yourself.
For those who believe we need stiffer gun control laws there is a lesson to be learned from this last week’s events in Canada, which happens to have some of the most stringent gun control laws anywhere.
First lesson: Bad guys will always find a way to get their hands on a firearm, even if they have to fabricate one. Since the invention of gunpowder and the method of propelling projectiles through tubes using the same, firearms, and their technological advancement, have been the subject of enormous sums of time, money, energy and research… and that genie will never be put back in the bottle. The latter jihadi scumbag, despite a fairly long rap sheet was able to get a gun, in Canada, and use it to kill a member of the Canadian military as well as to attack Parliment.
Second lesson: Since the former jihadi scumbag was either too stupid or too lazy to obtain a firearm, he simply used his car to run over two members of the Canadian military, killing one and injuring the other. Strange, I don’t hear anyone calling for a ban on cars. The intent to commit murder can be manifested in many ways, a gun, car, bomb, knife, axe (see NYC), baseball bat, rope, hands, feet, lead pipe, can of gasoline, cyanide, Ebola … the list goes on and on. However since criminals are resourceful and determined, and tend not to obey any laws (especially ones regarding firearms), they WILL generally be able to find a gun; and the time honored method of stopping a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun. Government mandated unilateral disarmament of law abiding citizens (so fervently sought by progressives) would be at the very top of the criminal/terrorist wish list as it would make their job so much easier, and safer!
This illegal alien who shot four people, killing two Deputies, was back here again after already being deported twice and was unlawfully possessing a firearm. What a shock, huh? It’s almost like he wasn’t even paying any attention to our laws about guns… or anything else! Wouldn’t it be an ironic twist of fate if this particular perp, (who, based on his tattoos, appears to be affiliated with the Sinaloa cartel) turned out to have used one of the 2000 firearms purposely handed over to Mexican drug gangs? (as was the case in the murder of Border Patrol Agent, Brian Terry – and more of those weapons have been turning up on our side of the border lately.) This was done with the intent to create chaos on the border and generate public outcry for stiffer gun control laws during the now infamous Obama, Holder and Jarrett sponsored “Fast and Furious” caper. You know, the scandal for which Holder was found to be in Contempt of Congress and for which Holder is now trying to claim Executive Privilege for emails to his wife. The scandal which, thanks to the FOIA suit by Judicial Watch, is blowing up once again and thought to be the cause for Holder’s resignation. Holder belongs in prison (going back to the Marc Rich pardon) … just my opinion, but interestingly, he does lament the fact that despite having no such constitutional power, he was not able to “pass gun control legislation”. Apparently, neither the Attorney General, nor the “Constitutional Scholar” in the Oval Office actually know anything about the Constitution, or perhaps they just choose to ignore it.
Mr. Cramden writes a very true post. Canada is a great example of failed gun control and failed criminal control.
Liberals can’t focus on the criminal or the open border as they know who it points directly at since the Border Security Act of 2006 was defunded by the Bummer gang intentionally. This is a national liberal strategy to keep the border open and not enforce immigration laws. Not only are drug cartel murderers hiding in the country by the thousands, IMAGINE the 900,000 unenforced deportation ordered people that are still loose and roaming the country. Last week it was revealed the Obola-Bummer’s released thousands of additional violent illegals into the country. They have also sued the state of Arizona for enforcing immigration laws and the list goes on. This calls for action and indictment at the very least and this includes the Governor here for his actions of the same violation and ignoring of laws.
Canada: 2.2 gun deaths per 100,000 people every year.
America: 10.3 gun deaths per 100,000 every year.
For all you pro gun rocket scientist let me do the math for ya.
America’s gun death rate per 100,000 every year is 4.68 times higher than Canada!
Way to go Moonbutt. Thanks for openly inviting all Mexicans to Calif. and I quote “LEGAL OR ILLEGAL. ALL ARE WELCOME”. You said it on the news as you were rubbing elbows with the corrupt president of Mexico!!
Now we have dead Deputies. I hope you sleep well you, illegal loving senile old goat!!!
level: Why don’t you quote stats for the mentally deranged who use the guns to kill? Let us know how many of those are running around Canada.
Millions illegally in the country committing crimes and crimes with guns and this is THE truth and THE crime problem. Mexico and other S. American countries are ranked among the most dangerous countries with murder rates in some towns near the top of the world wide list. Now if hundreds of thousands or millions who are in that violent crime environment with criminal records have a place to escape to with no records checks and a free walk into and get welfare or government benefits and free schools and medical and/or sell drugs for the cartels and some that are cartel killers that walk into this country you would expect to have the same type of violence with guns problem they have. Same goes for liberal sentencing of violent criminals, keep letting them out after violent crime and you will have more violent crime as every major liberal run city does. There is an open borders and crime-felon problem in this country that will need to be dealt with. Billions are being spent on illegals that could be going to secure the border and fight crime.
Kits, Justice, Dog, Cramden, and Gaspen, you do realize that undocumented immigration hit it’s fastest growth rate and biggest spike for total number of undocumented workers in the history of America under the Bush II presidency, don’t you? Since Obama took over from him the numbers of undocumented immigrants in America has dropped and the Obama administration has deported FAR more undocumentd immigrants than Bush II ever conceived of doing!
Level, There was no illegal immigration, gun violence(We’re #1!), economic collapse, racial injustice, unemployment, corporate takeover of government or any other of our country’s problems until that ni… um I mean liberal somehow got in our White House. Don’t you listen to hate radio and watch foxnues?
My condolences to the families and friends of those involved in this horrific drugs/guns tragedy.
Level,
The national murder rate in Canada is 2 per 100K, in the US it is 4.7 per 100K. The 32K annual US gun death rate factors in suicides which amount to 60% of all gun related deaths with 3% being accidental. (The Japanese have a nearly double suicide rate but because they do not have access to firearms they find other means, such as jumping in front of trains, overdosing or ingesting poison.) The remaining 37% (roughly 12K) are highly and disproportionately concentrated in urban, ethnic and drug gang fueled war zones in cities such as Chicago, Detroit, Flint, New Orleans, Richmond and Washington DC (some of these cities which had the most stringent “gun control” measures in the country – until recently overturned by SCOTUS, apparently, in addition to being unconstitutional, they weren’t working so well).
I remember when gangsters used to use clubs, knives and zip guns. But the times have changed. Do you really think if all guns were “banned” they wouldn’t still find a way to smuggle, steal or purchase firearms(perhaps from a California Democrat State Senator like Leland Yee) or that they would somehow stop fighting each other? That inflated US murder rate is directly attributable to unlawful gang activity, maybe we should ban those!
Level: Keep drinking the Kool-Aid
The difference between Obama/Holder/Jarrett’s “Fast and Furious” scheme to provide firearms to Mexican drug gangs and turn the border into a bloody war zone (yes, even more so that it already is!) and the Leland Yee/Raymond “Shrimp Boy” Chow’s gun running is that the Obama cabal was desperately trying to subvert the Constitution and eliminate the Second Amendment, whereas Yee & Company were just trying to make a fast buck (or as it’s known in Democrat circles, “Campaign Contributions”).
Level ignores reality and forgets the massive self-deportation after 911 when many went home and the same happened in the recent recession when construction work was off and many figured out they can collect benefits from Mexico and live very well off our taxpayers and legal residents.
The liberals have gone down their list of blanket lunatic fringe excuses and blames and checked them off, Fox News, Racism, Bush, NRA, Guns, etc. There is no blame of the criminal or acceptance of facts that their liberal policies are to blame for this crime wave of illegals and the 33% or more in our jails and prisons and the drug gangs everywhere. This is Obummer’s personal fault followed by Gov. Beam who follows his lead and both should be indicted.
My condolences to the families of the two fallen officers, one wounded deputy and and the poor guy standing his ground to a monster. People….guns have been and will always be a part of our society. They are never, ever going away. You can hate guns all you want but the realty is that they will always be part of American society. I do believe we need to have a better screening process for domestic violence and mentally ill people trying to obtain guns. We need better gun education in schools. Gun owners need to be more responsible in securing their weapons. But what we need, being a medical professional is better mental health availability. Mental health monies and institutions are always the ones to have their budgets cut. All we do is throw Valium, Xanax, Prozac and the 100’s of other drugs at our nations mental health problems. And those drugs themselves cause mental health problems. I watch it happen every day. Our society is also a prescription drug loving society, and the drug companies are winning presidential elections because of it. It’s not the guns guys, it’s our society and government that let’s these atrocious acts happen
This will be found to involve drugs, illegal drugs, sales, and drug cartel type of criminal activity. The use and abuse of prescribed drugs is probably not involved in this. This crime wave involves the open border spilling over and allowing dangerous murderers to come in. Use of narcotics and mental illness already are supposed to prohibit law abiding people from being able to purchase guns and the use of these prescribed drugs, which is a separate issue, is a huge problem.
Right! All this is, is yet another example of a parasite from south of the border walking freely into the USA (three times now) due to open and uncontrolled borders. He is from one of the worst groups of insects on the planet. He had the drop on the LEOs because that is a way of life for him in Mexico. Until the fool in the white house gets a grip and starts caring for America, this will continue. Oh, that’s right …he has to CARE about America first. I know, I know. It’s a pipe dream.
hey kit: which border did your ancestors cross to raid the north american continent?
The defunding of the Border Security Act of 2006 is a major reason these killers are walking in. The funds were probably redirected to welfare for the ones walking in, blatant Treason comes to mind. The Border Patrol under Bummer have had their hands tied and told to even back off the border in Texas by many miles to let them come in. Arizona was sued for enforcing the law, imagine that. The Arizona Sheriff, Joe Arpaio, has been sued by the Bummer-Holder gang of outlaws several times for enforcing the law. This drug cartel killer was deported out of Arpaio’s jail in 1997 after narcotic trafficking charges. These illegals are something people have had enough of and want OUT of the country and voting all liberals out is the first step.
Golly….I would think that Ralph, inJustice, Dogula and Kits would be off patrolling the border with their firearms, as part of the well regulated militia which they are members of, keeping democracy safe for Exxon, BP, Halliburton and McDonald’s, goosestepping us towards Armageddon.
I guess their definition of well ‘regulated’ has been confused with the words ‘well medicated.’
Hmmm,
Not the anyone here would expect you to know anything about that dusty old document, the Constitution, but if you ever bothered to take a peek at it you might discover that there is a specific named party whose job it is to defend the border, and it’s not us, the citizenry. In fact, Article 4, Section 4 stipulates that the United States (Federal Government) guarantees to defend the States against invasion at the borders. The only problem is that under Obama, the Feds have abdicated this responsibility, and when Arizona had the unmitigated gall to take it upon themselves to defend their OWN border, the Feds SUED them to cease and desist.
How messed up this that? “We’re not going to do our job, but we’ll sure as heck sue you if YOU try to do it, because it’s OUR job!… even if we refuse to do it! So there!”
Besides, many of us have actual jobs and responsibilities here we must be accountable for. Our families (and in some cases, the families of many others) depend upon us doing our jobs. It’s not like we’re part of 92 million adults over the age of 16 who are no longer in the workforce. We’re not layabouts living off welfare, food stamps and Section 8 housing, we have to actually WORK to pay for all THOSE people. We can’t just take off for the border on a whim, despite the fact that at least some of us might be willing to if circumstances were to allow. Some of those who are taking on a voluntary role as ad hoc Border Security feel like since they have volunteered to defend this nation abroad, they might as well defend this nation here, at home, too. They understand that the oath they took to “…support and defend the Constitution of the United States Of America” does not have an expiration date.
But you just go ahead and belittle them. I understand that’s just what progressives do.
Well said Ralph!!
Kit, I dont spend much time on these blogs, I dont have a gun or know how to use one which is my choice, and I respect overyones right to own one if they want to and they are a legal resident in our country. Moonbutt cracks me up. Love your sense of humor.
Snoplease, its the f=%^ing NRA that controlls all the gun laws sales service distribution and just about everything about guns that has destroyed our country and turned it into the violent ridden society we ARE. Get rid of the f_% $÷ng NRA and maybe our country will become less violent. The NRA has bastardised our constitution to fit their GREEDY needs. IMHO
Gofigure do you truely feel that guns are the sole reason we gphave a violent society. I guess it really cant be hollywood with all of its violent programing or bad parenting or mental health. It couldnt be people so depressed that they have no more reason to live so they deciede to take someone with them. These really cant be the reason for violence? No its the NRA that is the sole reason for violence in the US. No snoplease is correct there are many many reasons for are violent country
Guns make people violent?? And spoons make people fat. Liberal logic.
Can’t Figure has a Liberal-Progressive belief that people aren’t responsible for their actions and can’t be held to any standards and that laws should be abolished and borders open and prisons emptied and your tax dollars given to illegals and felons and bums. Then when a violent criminal Mexican Illegal drug cartel tatted murderer starts killing people it is the NRA’s fault. Blame them, the gun. Fox, Bush, etc. Insanity isn’t the word that should be used.
I dont give a rats a## what you teaparty hacks think. Im entitled to my opinion and not a single thing you say, think or do means beans to me. You are just a bunch of finger pointers and name callers, look in the mirror to see where the problem begins…
GUNS SUCK
GF, did you read your post before you hit ‘submit’?? You just called everybody else name callers and finger pointers while you were doing precisely that. Pretty doggoned funny.
And then claimed that nothing we say will ever make any difference in how you think. Classic. Totally unwilling to consider new information. So much for open-mindedness. That brain is shut tight as a drum.
Go Figure: What planet are YOU living on???? You are the poster child for ignorance. I don’t expect you to care as you dribble in your post. YOU are an exceptional picture of the Bubble Boy.
Pulleeeze don’t call Law enforcement when you are being a victim. Since you don’t need any protection….YOU deal with the intruder. YOU and only YOU! Good luck with that and I doubt flowers will be put in front of your house, or section 8 neighborhood.
baphomet: My people came here LEGALLY….L E G A L L Y.
HUGE difference. Go find your History book, if you still know how to use one. Then read and TRY to comprehend. You can read, correct? You did pass the Fourth grade right? Good luck with it.
Have a nice day!
-Go Figure
Hey man people are just violent by nature, it’s been like that since the dawn of time. that people have fought…for food, women, land, wealth. The NRA is not causing all the violence, people are, IT IS THEIR NATURE. Yup, they are there to protect our right to own and carry guns if we choose too. Yup the gun companies profit, along with bullet companies. You just do not understand American gun culture man. Many of us just like to shoot and try to better our marksmanship. Its fun to go shoot. Many people have grown up hunting with their families. We understand, you have not. But to ridicule us, call us names, and demonize us because we own guns and support the second amendment is just asinine dude. You gotta chill out dude, try and see other views. I can understand yours, and you are entitled to it. But you and other people that disagree with me really need to see the root problem of gun violence in our society, its multi-faceted and complex. Its not the guns people, its our society and its violent nature. Seek to understand WHY people want to kill other people.
What Can’t Figure can’t comprehend is what dangerous places Mexico and S. America are that breed tens of thousands of murderers on the run trying to illegally enter this country and where gun murders are everyday events and usually unsolved and corruption and bribery rule the rulers with drug gangs doing most of the killings. Blame the NRA for an illegal alien criminal drug cartel killer? Not the open border and the criminal? No-one sane could be that ignorant.
Justice: I guess the FBI crime statistics are generated by a bunch of liberals.
See http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/04/16/illegal-immigration-murder_n_5154959.html
As the population of undocumented immigrants increased the homicide rate decreased by a lot.
Border towns with higher immigrant (legal and illegal)tend to have lower homicide rates then the state they are in.
Immigrants are incarcerated less often their those born as U.S. citizens
California state statistics on crime to show violent crimes have dramatically declined since the 1990s.
So while this murderer is apparently illegal – we are left with plain and simply fact that U.S. born citizens have a higher murder rate and murder more police then do immigrants (both legal and illegal).
See FBI statistics number of officer homicides in 2013 was at its lowest level 27 killed in the line of duty vs 44 killed in 2012. Quite a number of these killings were good ole white boys. Like the 2 killed in Santa Cruz last year, or the couple killed by the numnut in the east, or the Texas nutcase of a year of two ago – and the list of U.S. born killing police officers go on and on and on.
http://www.fbi.gov/news/pressrel/press-releases/fbi-releases-2013-preliminary-statistics-for-law-enforcement-officers-killed-in-the-line-of-duty
http://www.nleomf.org/facts/enforcement/
http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/leoka/2012/officers-feloniously-killed/felonious_topic_page_-2012
But forgive me for getting in the way of your ill supported rant.
Oh and btw, handguns are the weapon of choice.
Rick
I am sure Justice will have a well informed response.
I repeat: If that particular illegal had been kept out of the country, those two officers would still be alive, and other people would be uninjured.
We currently have immigration laws, like every other country in the world. The Administration should enforce them, like every other country in the world does.
We have enough criminals of our own without adding everybody else’s into the mix.
I wonder if the guns he used are connected to Eric Holder’s Fast & Furious? They haven’t found most of them yet. . .
Just came across this, Rick. It might help explain your widely used argument that there are more “deportations” under obama than there were during the previous Administration:
http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/391247/needed-broken-windows-immigration-policing-mark-krikorian
“. Almost the only people who get deported (other than border arrests, which weren’t counted in the statistics as deportations before January 20, 2009). . . ”
Border arrests didn’t used to count. Now they do.
Justice, turns out this shooter has been living in Utah for the last ten years.
So how exactly is Governor Brown and President Obama responsible for this shooter entering the US? Wouldn’t that onus fall on the shoulders of Bush/Schwarzenegger?
Level, the folks I know who are here illegally (!) go back and forth between here and home all the time. They visit family, get work orders, whatever. It’s easy enough to do.
Oh, never mind. I forgot. Everything is Bush’s fault.
Mexico just happened to put out their “new” crime rates for 2013 which showed a decrease in crime, with a murder rate of 22 instead of 24 per hundred thousand. These are fake and doctored numbers when many, many murders are never reported and the murdered are never found. Ignorant liberals fall for this type of gov. propaganda and never think it is false to try to save a tourist economy that has suffered huge declines because of crime. This doesn’t take into account the other countries in S. America that have their people illegally entering this country as well. There are no non-corrupt numbers coming out of Mexico unless they are not from Mexico. Most liberals have probably never been near the border or are afraid to go within miles of it. If they went to some of the remote areas and see what is really going on they would demand action to close it and monitor it. This is why they have to blame everything else except the real problems and hide The MIA Bummer-Insane, the most incompetent comic book clown ever seen who can’t do anything correctly.
Go Figure,
A couple of quick thoughts:
You may not like guns; that is your right. You may not believe in God; this is your choice. But if someone breaks into your home while you and your family are there, the first things you are going to do is (1) Call someone with a gun and (2) Pray they get there soon.
Best of luck to you.
Louise, having a gun in that situation doesn’t guarantee you will respond properly, if at all. I don’t care how many guns and how much training a person may have you have no way of knowing how you might react. And most people breaking into houses are doing so to rob you, not to murder you as their priority. By pulling a gun on someone who has a gun, although there is also no guarantee that person even has a gun, you’ve just increased the chances of getting yourself killed.
Best of luck to ya though!
Wow, Bigger… where to begin. “Teh stoopid” is strong with this one, Luke.
Training absolutely DOES take over, which is why they do it incessantly for combat infantry. Sure, the occasional individual might freeze, but it doesn’t happen that often.
And if I got the point of your statement, “…most people breaking into houses are doing so to rob you, not to murder you as their priority.” are you advocating calling a “Time Out” in the middle of your home invasion event so you might inquire of the perpetrator precisely what his reason might be for standing in your house? And would you honestly believe whatever answer he might offer? “I’m really just here for the TV and stereo… but may I say your wife and daughters are looking especially alluring this evening!”
And it’s hard to calibrate the absolute inane idiocy of, “By pulling a gun on someone who has a gun, although there is also no guarantee that person even has a gun, you’ve just increased the chances of getting yourself killed.”
Wow…
When I present my weapon, (preferably a 12 gauge shotgun with 00 buckshot) I am supremely confident that my chance for survival has just greatly increased and the chance of survival for the perp has just gone down precipitously. I, for one, am resolved that I am not going to rely on the benevolence of a thug for the life and safety of my family or myself. I will not die on my knees begging for my life, or that of a loved one. Anyone coming uninvited through my door will regret that very poor decision, and I have no question or qualms whatsoever on how I would react. None.
Best of luck to YOU, because apparently that’s all you’re going to be counting on, and you’re going to need it!
Ralph, a gun toting e-hero!
Back in the real world Ralph, how many gun owners are actually trained, let alone highly trained?
“I have no question or qualms whatsoever on how I would react. None.”
It’s one thing to talk the talk, but unless you speak from actual experience, you CAN’T guarantee you will walk the walk.
And that statement comes from someone who had a person try and pull a gun on them, and I diffused the situation with nothing more than my smarts and a gentle hand ready for the worst that could happen.
Bigger,
As is your customary practice, you know nothing of which you speak.
I am quite comfortable with both my skill set and my mindset.
“Justice, turns out this shooter has been living in Utah for the last ten years. ”
Wow. Were the people commenting earlier just jumping to conclusions?
Obama was alive 10 years ago. Still his fault.
No liberals know where the murderer has been for years and he is lying as to where he has been. The murdering piece of debris was deported numerous times and arrested numerous times and was now an armed felon and a felon illegally in the country murdering people. People have a huge problem with Hook-Nose Brown and comic clown Obummer letting illegals in and not enforcing laws and letting them out of jails and refusing to enforce laws and this will effect the election now and in the future until laws are enforced and the border secured.
@Ralph-like your tv character namesake, you sure are big on bombast and insulting bluster-which regularly turns out to be wrong. The 2nd Amendment to the constitution states : “A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.” Gun nuts (not all gun owners, but those who feel guns are the answer to most problems) used this to justify ‘patrolling the border'(see link below), or declare the US government has no jurisdiction in their area-think of your tea party hero(read ‘treasonous sob’) that cattle welfare baron Cliven Bundy.
http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-Texas/2014/06/20/Texas-Border-Surge-Militia-Groups-Responding#sthash.gfEXDA3L.dpuf
What you regularly sound like to me and I would hazard many (not all-the cons must admire what passes for ‘frankness’) who read these posts- is a ChrisChristie/CJstyle bully.
Hmmm,
You seem to imply I “… regularly turn out to be wrong.” Could you cite an instance, please?
If I may quote myself, “…there is a specific named party whose job it is to defend the border, and it’s not us, the citizenry. In fact, Article 4, Section 4 stipulates that the United States (Federal Government) guarantees to defend the States against invasion at the borders.”
What you are witnessing in the border states is the failure of the the Federal government to uphold the law and fulfill their “guarantee”, which subsequently results in the “militias” stepping into breach (which is their traditional role) when the Federal government cannot, or will not, do their primary job of defending the country.
Any nation which cannot control or defend it’s borders ceases to be sovereign.
To Snowplease, Ralph, Dog and Justice. If 32,000 people were falling out of airplanes in America, I think something would be done about. Obviously, America has a problem with gun violence compared with other Nations on this planet.
So why isn’t the NRA doing something about it? In a true “libertarian society” (and I use that phrase loosely) doesn’t the seller of the product have any responsibility to the buyer?
The NRA should be asking for better background checks for mentals and crooks. The NRA should be asking for safer guns ie perhaps voice, fingerprint or high tech safety lock. The NRA should be asking for smaller clips. The NRA should be for restricting armor piercing bullets.
As for Marquez, he was deported twice from, what I can get off the internet, selling Pot in Arizona. And yes, he probably hired a “coyote” to get him back in. He was living in Salt Lake City. How did he get a drivers license in Utah in 2011, after being deported twice? Apparently because Utah did not check finger prints details at the time.
You really think that erecting the “Berlin” type wall on our Southern and Northern borders is the answer? What then… plant mines along the Pacific, Atlantic and Gulf of Mexico? I am not certain that is realistic but I am certain it is NOT what America is about.
Ralph. Article IV, Section 4 reads “The United States shall guarantee to every state in this union a republican form of government, and shall protect each of them against invasion; and on application of the legislature, or of the executive (when the legislature cannot be convened) against domestic violence.”
Invasion, “an instance of invading a country or region with an armed force.”
Section IV does NOT stipulate anything about “the border.”
As a matter of fact, was the border impassable during the 1700’s, 1800’s, 1900’s or should we ask, when has “the border” EVER been completely impassable… and that answer is never.
Rock,
Really? Would it not be safe to assume that any invasion would have to cross a border? That would include airspace, territorial waters and land borders with other nations.
Definitions of “invasion” other than the one you selected include-
Invasion: an incursion by a large number of people or things into a place or sphere of activity.
synonyms: influx, inundation, flood, rush, torrent, deluge, avalanche, juggernaut. “an invasion of tourists”
Invasion: an unwelcome intrusion into another’s domain.
synonyms: violation, infringement, interruption, intrusion, encroachment, disturbance, disruption, breach
“an invasion of my privacy”
Your very simple statement, “… when has the border ever been impassable?” does not preclude the fact that it could be made impassable. Fences work, ask the Israelis. If they didn’t work, why do they bother to put one around the White House? (Although it seems they may need to raise the height of that one.)
Rock,
Just wondering, are you as excited about this Tuesday as I am? I swear I feel just like a kid eagerly waiting for Christmas! I think the Mrs. and I just might have to pop the cork on a really nice bottle of bubbly.
So, how are you planning on celebrating the election returns?
Rock,
Like I said before…its not the NRA thats killing people. The guns are not the problem. Our society is the problem. We’ve turned our backs on mental health in this country. Our health system is driven by profits and margins. There’s no BIG money to be made with mental health.
Yes Rock, we are a gun loving society, as I mentioned, many of you on here do not understand our gun culture here in America, you probably never will…the guns are not going anywhere…EVER. Sorry. You can push (no pun intended) the bullet button, weapon bans, serial number printing on the bullets, demonize the guns and their owners etc…its not going to do anything to help whats really going on in our society.
We are a drug, alcohol, prescription drug loving society, that also…will never go away. The people that use guns to kill these people are not mentally well, they are sick. There needs to be better more accessible mental health care here in our country.
Don’t get me wrong please, I’m all for better background checks, harsher consequences for not properly securing weapons in your home. And yes, (sorry fellow gun owners) I support the law stating that someone/law enforcement can file an order to have your guns seized if you are making threats or are a domestic violence offender. We as gun owners need to own the safety aspect of owning, educating and discharging our guns.
I’m a good citizen, I’m safe with my weapons, and a responsible gun owner. I’m not worried at all about my weapons being taken from me. If your mentally ill, or violent offenders, YOU LOSE THAT RIGHT (its really a privilege) TO OWN A GUN. Sorry gun friends.
Where did Rock say the NRA is killings people?
Ralph: the Websters dictionary not a tool of constitutional scholars. What do scholars say about that sentence?
GUNS SUCK. IMHO
Ralph, again your scare tactics of “invasion” is just a bunch of hot air hype. Being an undocumented worker after all, is only a misdemeanor charge. Before you put a Wall around the United States, I suggest you at least return the Statue of Liberty back to France.
For your information I plan on doing the same thing since 1972.
We have survived: “I’m not a crook,” Tricky Dick, “I did not trade arms for hostages [with Iran],” Trickle Down Ronnie, “Read my lips,” CIA Bush and “Mission Accomplished,” Alcoholic Bush.
I am pragmatic and a few GOP Prostitutes in the Senate one way or the other doesn’t scare me. I mean the last time the Congress and Senate were Controlled by GOP Pimps was in 2002 and we went head first into Iraq to be greeted as Crusading Liberators… oops.