Officials: Muck on roadways not from change in de-icing
By Kathryn Reed
Every spring the sides of the roads in the basin and on the highways leading to Lake Tahoe are black and not the pristine white of fresh snow. The difference this year is locals have noticed the black has been more prominent throughout the winter.
However, snow removal officials on both sides of the state line say nothing new is going on.
A South Lake Tahoe street sweeper creates dust. Photos/Kathryn Reed
Caltrans is responsible for the highways throughout Lake Tahoe in California, while the Nevada Department of Transportation handles them in the Silver State. On city streets and in the county it is those jurisdictions that take care of the side streets.
The Tahoe Regional Planning Agency does not oversee what is put on the roads each season, but it does take a look at the reports the various jurisdictions compile. On the California side, the Lahontan Regional Water Control Board looks at what was put on the roads and what the sweepers took off.
“We don’t regulate public safety,” TRPA spokesman Jeff Cowen said.
Public safety is the main focus of snow removal policy.
“You have to find that fine line to provide for public safety and be environmentally conscious,” said Tom Celio with the El Dorado County Department of Transportation. “Our primary skid resistance material we use for ice control are cinders, volcanic cinders. We’ve been using them for 20 years. There’s been no change.”
Those cinders are also what are used in South Lake Tahoe. In the city it’s a mix of two-thirds cinders and one-third salt.
John Greenhut, public works director for South Lake Tahoe, said his department believes cinders create less fine sediment. It’s the fine sediment that people charged with protecting the clarity of Lake Tahoe want to keep from reaching the water.
Caltrans uses a mix of sand and salt. Years ago the agency was blamed for the dying trees along state highways because of the amount of salt being used. Part of the problem was blowers spraying the salt into the foliage and then the conifers turning a rust color.
“If the sand is wet, it may appear black in color. It’s gray or brown in color when it’s dry,” Deanna Shoopman, Caltrans spokeswoman said. “We use the purest sand we can get for Tahoe.”
The state and an independent environmental agency tests each delivery of sand and salt to make sure it meets appropriate standards, Shoopman said. The same components used in the basin are used on the highways on the outskirts of Tahoe.
NDOT uses three parts sand to one part salt on the 150 lane miles it services in Lake Tahoe.
“This ratio, with a relatively smaller amount of sand than used in some other situations, helps reduce sand particulates form being blown into the air,” said Meg Ragonese, NDOT spokeswoman. “When spread on the roads, salt and sand is wetted with brine (a water-salt solution) to create heavier sand that keep roads ice-free at lower temperatures and will not as easily bounce off roadway surfaces. Brine is also sprayed on wet road surfaces prior to snowfall to delay ice pack build up.”
NDOT has reduced the amount of sand it uses from about 4,300 cubic yards in 1990 to a little more than 800 cubic yards in recent years.
Celio said one of the benefits of the cinder is they are easier to pick up with a sweeper because they are coarser than sand.
“We sweep it up as soon as it is practical, as soon as we get dust,” Celio said.
Lahontan requires the county and city to keep a log of the material put on the road, what is swept off and what is collected in sediment traps the in various detention basins.
Russ Wigart, an engineer with the county DOT, along with others in the basin keep researching the best methods to melt snow and ice. Crushed walnuts have been used other places, but it’s cost prohibitive at $300/ton. Cinders cost about $20/ton.
Tell you what, I’ve been wondering if those street sweepers are even working this year? I’ve had to pass them a couple of times and it seems that they’re spewing a lot more dust than they’re picking up! Tell me that particulate doesn’t end up in the lake. One time it was such a thick cloud around the machine I couldn’t see at all and it even came into my car through the vent system!
I learned something new reading this article, having always thought salt was not used in the Tahoe Basin, since it would eventually flow to the lake and probably affect the landscape on the way down. The white mess on my car always suggested differently. It is clear now that the salty mess on the car is just that. And unfortunately I can’t offer a better solution.
More reasons for consolidation: County, Caltrans, and the City all do exactly the same job in our town, use different trucks and different ingredients for no reason. How many times have you seen caltrans trucks waiting on the side of the road because they can only do their roads and county takes twice as long as the city trucks. Would be more efficient to have either the city do all the side roads and bill the county or the other way around. Not to mention the drivers are paid full time but take the entire summer off, I was told it was because they put in so many hours in the winter, the summer is their make-up time? what a gig. consolidate and make these drivers seasonale or do another job in the summer.
Dogwoman,I can tell you the problem with the dust.I put myself through college driving street sweepers before I was 21.
I’ve noticed over the years the city more less stopped using Mobile heavy duty construction sweepers,started buying the Tymco design,from Texas.( Waco)
The problem I’ve seen with their operators is this.
They drive too fast to be effective,the best way to get these machine to clean and keep dust out the air is to sync the rear engine to a steady rpm,while at the same time the operator drives at a much slower speed and they use a light spray of water to keep the dust down.
It’s very sweeper super simple,to do this.
They also need to not over fill the collector bend or it just blows bye out the machine back in our brews ,clean cars,lungs.
I called and talked to Tom years ago about this but now he’s gone, no one there who sneaks up on the employees see’s really what their doing anymore.
Very interesting info, HTMLiT. Thanks for that. We’ll see if any of the operators are listening!
Current efforts are underway to determine the correct particle to be used as an abrasive on the road surface. Unfortunately all particles if used in large quantities will have a negative effect on the environment. Blending public safety with environmental protection is a difficult task. There is research being completed on using decomposed granite as the preferred abrasive as it has the correct effective size for traction (>50 sieve or .3mm), has minimal fine particulates, is dense and is native to the Tahoe basin. Current materials are imported to the Tahoe basin and are unnatural, which may be difficult for the lake to assimilate. Cal Trans, El Dorado and Placer County are investigating this issue and a determined solution (if found) may bring us much closer to the load reduction needed for Tahoe’s clarity. HTMLiT, I think you may be correct, however many issues exist with using sweeping to limit fine particulates including, timing of sweeping (can’t efficiently sweep wet roads for fine particulates), frequency of sweeping (# of passes), sweeper type, and documented effectiveness. I believe the operators are well educated in their machines. These new high efficiency sweepers are a whole other animal. Disposing of this fine particulate material is a problem all on its own. Source control is used as the major pollutant reduction in any BMP project. Winter abrasives are the one major source we can control and the benefits will far outway any treatment BMP constructed from a cost / benefit standpoint, including increased frequency sweeping.
The TYMCO Model DST-4® and Model DST-6® not only remove dirt, dust, and debris from the sweeping surface, they also clean the exhausted air to 99.999% of 0.5 micron size particles. TYMCO’s patented filtration system enables these sweepers to be equally efficient in wet or dry conditions, so you don’t have to avoid puddles and leave debris behind. Our DST System when coupled with our Regenerative Air System produces the most technologically advanced street sweeper available today. Both our DST-4 and DST-6 set the performance standards for particulate matter removal in the U.S. and Canada.
TYMCO Regenerative Air Sweepers use the least amount of water for dust control when compared to any other sweeper types mainly because of our centrifugal dust separator which removes the majority of fines from the air stream before the air is recycled. Water nozzles are specified that control airborne dust instead of wetting the material as it lays on the ground, which often creates mud that can be smeared on the surface and left behind
We want you to understand the Regenerative Air System and your TYMCO sweeper completely, so you can get optimal performance from your equipment investment. That’s why, for more than twenty years, we’ve offered two-day scheduled service schools at our facility in Waco, Texas. Managers, owners, operators and mechanics get hands-on training and answers to specific questions. Enrollment levels are kept low, so you and your team will get personal attention as well as the opportunity to learn from the experiences of other attendees through the interaction of the class.
Now get our Gods of the BASIN “TRPA” TO FORK OVER SOME OUR GOVERNMENT CASH, SEND THESE GUYS TO SCHOOL TO LEARN HOW TO SWEEP THE STREETS.
hydroman I’M TIRED OF THE BS AGENCIES KEEP TELLING US AND DOING NOTHING TO SOLVE THE REAL PROBLEMS.
I KNOW FOR A FACT, THE CITY JUST BOUGHT A NEW ONE THESE ,ANY MONKEY CAN PEEL A BANANA BUT FEW KNOW HOW TO GROW THEM!
Most of that verbiage is the manufacturer specs. The operators are trained and the mechanics go over the equipment with them in detail. You dont just go driving one of these without training. I have spent many years in the field with many types of machines and can say equipment specs vary from what you see in a controlled condition vs. what you actually see in the real world, especially Tahoe. Our roads are in bad condition and are crown in areas preventing good suction. I agree that im tired of agencies telling us to do something without solving the problem; however agencies are heading in the direction of increased sweeping in the name of water quality. Ive watched that Tymco go by my office many times at slow speeds and discussed operations with the driver (who is knowledgeable). Ive also tested the road surface before and after. The smudge it leaves behind in wet and/or icy conditions is the fine material you are trying to recover. These work best in dry conditions, which is why the jurisdictions most the time wait until after the storm to sweep. In Tahoe, icy roads, wet roads, large aggregates and bad road conditions make it difficult to sweep effectively. That and we have no designated facility to dump the fine particle chamber and clean these effectively. In the associated picture in this article, the plume of dust is coming out of the sweeper. The broom is also down, which creates dust… Every time the sweep they need to go to the dump, so I know they fill the rig up prior top heading to the dump. Bottom line is.., this is necessary, but not the be all save all. Not one study nationwide has documented a water quality benefit from sweeping, we know it removes the total mass, but does not remove the fine particulates that give you a benefit and help “keep Tahoe blue”. We are putting allot of eggs in this basket, so controlling the aggregate prior to it being laid on the road surface is a true source control instead of recovering it once it’s been laid down. Your right HTMLiT, I am not arguing with you, these guys can benefit from training, however the practice itself needs a good look from a cost benefit standpoint and in terms of safety vs environmental quality. I share your frustration…
Hydroman have you and the Epa head honchos ever really thought about all the damage the snow dump done to that area? There’s got be lots of toxin in that grime,from tires,oil,antifreeze,trans fluids and only nature knows what else.
There are no barriers to keep this from running into the stream zone ,these black plastics dams they put up are nonsense.
That has to end up at some point in the water table.
I shake my head everything I stop at the stop signs see kids playing there or people walking their dogs.If THEY ONLY KNEW.The water running right there into the lake seems a little ignorant to say the least,not only that, I know people that live there, they say the truck noise of trucking it up there is a Public nuisance like the forest burning piles.
For years, I use to watch the people wade in the stream over here off of Keller road ,all the toxins running off Heavenly Valley parking lot right into some water collection basin ,there were signs that even told you to stay out the water.”Kids don’t read signs,they play”.
I know they done a few filter catches, but I still don’t think that water run off is being treated enough to have a positive effect on water health.
Hydroman, I had the technical training to be able to clean Clay sewer pipe manufacturing companies,If I remember right it was Pacific Sewer pipe company(it was huge).That was the hardest job I ever had with sweeping as clay is hell to remove not get it air board.I recovered 1000’s of tons of fine dust,they in return would put in right back into a recovery area use again in smaller pipes.The company I use to work for send me back to the Tymco plant, contract me out drive back new machines to the cities at a very fair price.Some the cities really showed their stuff with custom chrome wheels, candy apple paints,air condition, and even stereo FM radio in the cabs.Happy street sweepers do a much more effective job if you treat them with respect.
I was contracted out for asphalt laying, airport runway sweeping,beach parking lots,(sand),many more dust raising condition.
I don’t believe these cities on both side of the State line really realize the quality of life having clean streets.People take this service for granted.
I think if the city would slow down their brushes ,move slower, you would recover more the Tahoe dust storms.
Our streets are not much more than packed down wagon trails.
Cost is always the bottom line, but I don’t think the residents that suffer here from lack of job creation,good wages,overly high taxes,Bone head agencies, should have to foot the bill.
I don’t think all these agencies realize that our borrowing power for both private and public financing are about to sky rocket to 15 to 18% in the next few years.(projects need closer study on cost before testing the waters)!
The country just doesn’t have the money to keep the other Tahoes out there clean any more.
One thing very important, you need hire operators that really take pride in their work or we will just keep seeing theses dust devils traveling through our neighborhoods.
Nice to have this public info on a pubic forum, so others out there know there’s more to a Clean Street than meets the Eye.
PS , THEY GUY WHO DRIVES THE PLOW OVER IN THE STATE-LINE AREA HAS DONE THE FINEST JOB OVER THE YEARS ,PLEASE DON’T MOVE HIM INTO ANOTHER AREA,HE’S GREAT.
We live in a semi arid snowmelt driven catchment. Its like the Tahoe desert. Dust will blow regardless in this town regardless of sweeper frequency. Tandem operations or multiple passes may help. By using tandem operations, a mechanical sweeper can be used to dislodge fine and remove coarse sediment and a sweeper like the Tymco DST6 following picking up the ultra fine particulates. That’s what they do best.. There is on the road surface a “free” and a “fixed” load. The free load is available for washoff or dust storms. The fixed load is the portion that is caked to the road surface and does not come off even in hurricane force winds. The only thing that can remove that layer is water. A mechanical brush type sweeper will remove large and some small particles, but the steel bladed broom pulverizes particles as it is removing the total mass. We are not an urban environment like a city where our load is stationary on the road surface and blocked between high rises and vegetated streets. We have millions of acres of land, with urban development scattered about. Dirt is tracked in, applied to the road, blown in, expelled into the air from cars, smokestacks, and businesses. Shoulders are driven on and compacted and constantly redistributed on the road surface. People want to park on the shoulder, just look at the public resistance to some boulders that were planned to protect vegetation and prevent soil mobilization in Sierra tract. Not that I was a fan of that, but the primary goal of most erosion control is preventing soil from mobilizing in the first place. Now things are heading toward storm generated volume reduction. LID it’s called.., getting the water back into the ground at its source. The opposite of curb and gutter. So, to get back the sweeper, I agree with you HTMLiT, more emphasis needs to be put into making sure these guys take their jobs seriously, but I do believe they are wanting to do the right thing and have the best of intentions. The way it is currently jurisdiction lay down 1000 tons of cinders, then recover 1000 tons to justify their operations. As far as the snow storage site at Sierra Tract, I will respectfully add my own opinion based on information I know… This site has been managed to be closed, so as not contribute storm generated flow to Trout Creek or the Upper truckee River. The washoff pond is only for liquid waste and is lined with impermeable material, so as to not allow any pollutants to enter groundwater. The decantered water is allowed into the pond to evaporate. The sludge material (that contains allot of the nasty stuff you mentioned) is put into trucks and hauled out of the Tahoe Basin to friendly landfill in Nevada. As you pointed out some of this probably does enter the shallow groundwater table, but first must get through microbes and layers of dirt prior to getting there, further polishing some of the pollutants. If they didn’t dump it there, they would have to dump it somewhere and increasing this requirement will only make it more expensive for you and I. The water from the Sierra Tract snow storage and vactor disposal site (as far as I know) does not make it to Trout Creek, so I could feel comfortable letting my kids play in the creek. There is always room for improvements and I believe they are in the making. As far as the heavenly parking lot, I know they installed two huge stormfilter media filtration cartridges to treat the water, but as you pointed out, I would not let my kids play in that creek. Keller Canyon is pretty clean however, but hardly ever runs. For tahoes clarity they are targeting particles less than 20 microns in diameter. They want all jurisdictions to achieve a 30% load reduction of 20 micron particles in the next 20 years. The other pollutants are regulated under the NPDES general permit and enforced more for the EPA and clean water act. That’s means developing an illicit discharge detection and elimination program for pollution including volatiles and hydrocarbons. This means more regulating and controlling commercial businesses as they are the only ones generating these types of pollutants. From a lake clarity point of view it’s all about fine particulates. That means controlling large volumes of storm water from entering the lake. And, real quick, getting back to the article, controlling and specifying a new abrasive for the basin may help in all these areas we are discussing, including air quality. Using a dense, coarse, native particle… Don’t introduce new ones from outside the basin. A quick thought…, during the Comstock era this basin was pillaged with no regard for the environment. Areas were clear-cut, soil disturbed on massive levels, rail systems installed in meadows, creeks channelized / moved. So how come by 1968 when they started measuring clarity was the lake clear to 100’? If erosion was the problem, would the lake ever have recovered from the Comstock? I would think not… The streams all began decreasing in sediment production the last 75 years according to the national sedimentation laboratory. I believe that the Tahoe basin has the ability to assimilate and recover from natural in basin generated disturbance. The difference is that road systems were installed, aggregates brought in, cars introduced, subdivisions created and urbanization promoted. Urbanization that the Regional Water board and the TMDL has calculated accounts for 72% of the loss of lake tahoes clarity. 72%!!! The urban is us… Is it the Citys fault or the County that they just so happen to have land in the most protected, heavily regulated and sensitive environment known to man? Is the financial responsibility for this restoration solely on yours and mine taxpayer dollars? I hope not cause the EIP has estimated that another 2.5 billion dollars needs to be invested in Tahoe to restore it. We know where that money needs to go, not to streams, not rivers, not to aesthetics, not to native trout, not to forest health, but ROADS. The roads are the problem and account for most of the loss of Tahoe’s clarity and managing those roads is the key to restoration and clarity stabilization. This is documented… I personally think we all have responsibility in this just by living here, therefore should contribute something to the restoration (roads and treatment). We want to sweep, but meanwhile our roads are falling apart. Have you ever swept an alligatored road? Its like a jenga puzzle, the moment you remove the sediment from the cracks the more it falls apart. So, to sweep we need better road condition to get the anticipated benefit and hope it works. The city did a study last year and showed they need to invest somewhere around 50 million in the roads currently to bring it to a rating of 70 (which is average). This problem is financially driven… The only way to generate revenue to support programs as anticipated is to make this place a national park, institute a recreational user fee or put in toll roads. Our small populous cant support the current level of effort needed. Im starting to rant…
I just want to say…, NICE WORK HTMLiT, you have done homework and appear to know what your talking about. Please keep questioning the politics of the various groups around this town. Much of this is not driven by your local jurisdiction you live in, but by the mighty regulatory agencies that govern this basins management. Those policies / thresholds with limited scientific backing are the ones in need of questioning. In my opinion, there is no “other Tahoe’s” out there.. We are in a league all our own and sitting on one of the most precious fresh water resources on planet earth.
It’s OK to Rant………I very much appreciate your reply and your schooling.
Quote:
Man is the only animal that knows what are and what they should be.
The only thing that stands between Utopia Tahoe and Paradise is Money.
I do believe if we keep raising all our cost to tax payers water,trash,room taxes, sells, etc it never quite gets to the problem the money needed for.
I do think our power in the agencies should have a small toll road tax empowered ,lets say even 50cents for 10 years …….you crunch the numbers and you’ll come up with some serious cash for road repairs.
I think the return visitors wouldn’t mind the toll cost, witness the improvements would realize that it went to good Use.