Comments on: Heavenly almost lives up to its name http://www.laketahoenews.net/2009/12/heavenly-almost-lives-up-to-its-name/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=heavenly-almost-lives-up-to-its-name The news of the Lake Thu, 09 Feb 2012 06:34:39 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3 By: Parker http://www.laketahoenews.net/2009/12/heavenly-almost-lives-up-to-its-name/comment-page-1/#comment-1090 Parker Mon, 28 Dec 2009 03:03:35 +0000 http://www.laketahoenews.net/?p=6487#comment-1090 I refer back to Chuck's comments about Heavenly "blowing hot air" as Vail does w/ skier visit numbers! Actually, pass holders could've come at the expense of other resorts that don't have either taxpayer subsidized parking, or a big infrastructure improvement (the Gondola that Heavenly paid for but that the community got behind/allowed) neither of which Vail seems grateful for. And the pass holders could just be Reno/Carson City/West Slope/Sac driveups. Be all that as it may, frame statistics as one sees fit, when people complain about the actions Vail Corp. the response from its defenders has been just what you've been saying, that they add to the economy of the town. But Bottom Line!!, the lodging properties and other providers of good & services haven't seen it!!! The trend line from when before Vail bought Heavenly has remained unchanged!! Even with all that the community has done for them! And it's not good that there skier numbers dropped dramatically last year! But do you want the list of businesses that's tried to work with Heavenly but instead of getting cooperation gets told "This is how we operate! We'll tell you how we'll work with you!!" I refer back to Chuck’s comments about Heavenly “blowing hot air” as Vail does w/ skier visit numbers! Actually, pass holders could’ve come at the expense of other resorts that don’t have either taxpayer subsidized parking, or a big infrastructure improvement (the Gondola that Heavenly paid for but that the community got behind/allowed) neither of which Vail seems grateful for. And the pass holders could just be Reno/Carson City/West Slope/Sac driveups.

Be all that as it may, frame statistics as one sees fit, when people complain about the actions Vail Corp. the response from its defenders has been just what you’ve been saying, that they add to the economy of the town. But Bottom Line!!, the lodging properties and other providers of good & services haven’t seen it!!! The trend line from when before Vail bought Heavenly has remained unchanged!! Even with all that the community has done for them!

And it’s not good that there skier numbers dropped dramatically last year! But do you want the list of businesses that’s tried to work with Heavenly but instead of getting cooperation gets told “This is how we operate! We’ll tell you how we’ll work with you!!”

]]> By: Greg Gunnin http://www.laketahoenews.net/2009/12/heavenly-almost-lives-up-to-its-name/comment-page-1/#comment-1089 Greg Gunnin Mon, 28 Dec 2009 00:55:54 +0000 http://www.laketahoenews.net/?p=6487#comment-1089 Parker, as long as skier visits increase that means more lodging is needed unless you assume all the new pass holders live in Tahoe. Whether its 30 different people skiing or one person 30 times, they still need lodging if they live out of town. And, more than 70% of Heavenly's season passholders live out of the basin. Steve, that is correct regarding Heavenly getting a waiver on taxes. Most ski resorts can't charge a tax because they are on USFS land. The Gondola is not. It's within the city limits. Parker, as long as skier visits increase that means more lodging is needed unless you assume all the new pass holders live in Tahoe. Whether its 30 different people skiing or one person 30 times, they still need lodging if they live out of town. And, more than 70% of Heavenly’s season passholders live out of the basin.
Steve, that is correct regarding Heavenly getting a waiver on taxes. Most ski resorts can’t charge a tax because they are on USFS land. The Gondola is not. It’s within the city limits.

]]> By: Steve http://www.laketahoenews.net/2009/12/heavenly-almost-lives-up-to-its-name/comment-page-1/#comment-1087 Steve Sun, 27 Dec 2009 22:22:58 +0000 http://www.laketahoenews.net/?p=6487#comment-1087 For God's sake, leave the tram in place. I ride it several times a week. It's also crucial to safely transport injured skiers down the face. At the same time it makes absolutely no sense that TRPA required the tram's removal to build the new gondola, yet thoroughly failed at something so simple and elementary as to require Heavenly to build a parking facility at the base of their gondola. Like the largely abandoned BMP program, this is another TRPA fiasco since the tram's fortunately still there and still heavily utilized. For God’s sake, leave the tram in place. I ride it several times a week. It’s also crucial to safely transport injured skiers down the face. At the same time it makes absolutely no sense that TRPA required the tram’s removal to build the new gondola, yet thoroughly failed at something so simple and elementary as to require Heavenly to build a parking facility at the base of their gondola. Like the largely abandoned BMP program, this is another TRPA fiasco since the tram’s fortunately still there and still heavily utilized.

]]> By: Antoinette http://www.laketahoenews.net/2009/12/heavenly-almost-lives-up-to-its-name/comment-page-1/#comment-1086 Antoinette Sun, 27 Dec 2009 21:10:53 +0000 http://www.laketahoenews.net/?p=6487#comment-1086 Steve, they WERE supposed to remove the tram when the gondola was built but really, it's a safety issue to keep it. The gondola gets put on wind hold way too often, and in an emergency situation, the tram could be the only way to evacuate people from the mountain. There's really no reason to get rid of it anyway. Lots of us ride it, and it doesn't hurt anything. Steve, they WERE supposed to remove the tram when the gondola was built but really, it’s a safety issue to keep it. The gondola gets put on wind hold way too often, and in an emergency situation, the tram could be the only way to evacuate people from the mountain. There’s really no reason to get rid of it anyway. Lots of us ride it, and it doesn’t hurt anything.

]]> By: Steve http://www.laketahoenews.net/2009/12/heavenly-almost-lives-up-to-its-name/comment-page-1/#comment-1085 Steve Sun, 27 Dec 2009 20:44:39 +0000 http://www.laketahoenews.net/?p=6487#comment-1085 Yes, absolutely when Heavenly was permitted to build the gondola it should have been required to include their own parking garage. And they could have provided free or discounted parking at their discretion for their skiers. It is also my understanding that in their negotiations with the city, Heavenly "somehow" got the city to agree that there would "never" be allowed or attempted, a city user tax imposed on skiers or sightseers purchasing tickets at the gondola ticket office. Can anyone verify this? If true, Heavenly sure benefited and certainly not the least by all the calls for city services down there...police, city fire department ambulances for injured skiers, fire department for gondola smoker fires, etc. Yes, absolutely when Heavenly was permitted to build the gondola it should have been required to include their own parking garage. And they could have provided free or discounted parking at their discretion for their skiers. It is also my understanding that in their negotiations with the city, Heavenly “somehow” got the city to agree that there would “never” be allowed or attempted, a city user tax imposed on skiers or sightseers purchasing tickets at the gondola ticket office. Can anyone verify this? If true, Heavenly sure benefited and certainly not the least by all the calls for city services down there…police, city fire department ambulances for injured skiers, fire department for gondola smoker fires, etc.

]]> By: Parker http://www.laketahoenews.net/2009/12/heavenly-almost-lives-up-to-its-name/comment-page-1/#comment-1082 Parker Sun, 27 Dec 2009 19:09:57 +0000 http://www.laketahoenews.net/?p=6487#comment-1082 My facts are straight Greg! Blaise "boasts" about not giving to charities AND Vail, and contrary to what they state, has not increased tourism to our town!!! That their pass sales are up after slashing the pass sale price that's not surprising! When ASC first slash the price sales went up! All that has led to an increase in skier visits!!! As I stated previously! when one pass holder goes 30 times that 30 skier visits. Increase pass sales and you get an increase in skier visits. BUT (Now read carefully!) that has NOT led to more skiers coming to town!! Lodging numbers have been trending downward ever since Vail bought Heavenly!! There are a variety of factors Yes!! But Vail buys Heavenly and less people are staying in our town!!-So logic says Vail purchasing Heavenly has not, contrary to their arrogant attitude, led to an increase in tourism in South Lake Tahoe!! My facts are straight Greg! Blaise “boasts” about not giving to charities AND Vail, and contrary to what they state, has not increased tourism to our town!!! That their pass sales are up after slashing the pass sale price that’s not surprising! When ASC first slash the price sales went up!

All that has led to an increase in skier visits!!! As I stated previously! when one pass holder goes 30 times that
30 skier visits. Increase pass sales and you get an increase in skier visits. BUT (Now read carefully!) that has NOT led to more skiers coming to town!! Lodging numbers have been trending downward ever since Vail bought Heavenly!! There are a variety of factors Yes!! But Vail buys Heavenly and less people are staying in our town!!-So logic says Vail purchasing Heavenly has not, contrary to their arrogant attitude, led to an increase in tourism in South Lake Tahoe!!

]]> By: Steven http://www.laketahoenews.net/2009/12/heavenly-almost-lives-up-to-its-name/comment-page-1/#comment-1081 Steven Sun, 27 Dec 2009 16:55:32 +0000 http://www.laketahoenews.net/?p=6487#comment-1081 Wouldn't it be great if Vail bought the parking garage along with the "Ta-hole"? When the gondola was built, it should have been mandatory for the ski resort to build the garage. Just another screw up by the city! And wasn't the removal of the tram part of the gondola package? What happened there? Wouldn’t it be great if Vail bought the parking garage along with the “Ta-hole”? When the gondola was built, it should have been mandatory for the ski resort to build the garage. Just another screw up by the city! And wasn’t the removal of the tram part of the gondola package? What happened there?

]]> By: Greg Gunnin http://www.laketahoenews.net/2009/12/heavenly-almost-lives-up-to-its-name/comment-page-1/#comment-1080 Greg Gunnin Sun, 27 Dec 2009 14:42:50 +0000 http://www.laketahoenews.net/?p=6487#comment-1080 Since Vail took over Heavenly pass sales have gone from approx 5,000 to over 20,000. ASC did not do that. Nor did the Japanese ownership. That came due to Vail lowering the prices from over $600 to $279 in 2002. Lodging sales are down due to the national economy, gaming competition from the Indian casinos,less flights into Reno and a large reduction in advertising and marketing by the LTVA, casinos, and regional ski resorts. Parker, get your facts straight, understand the real reasons this town is going down the crapper and what businesses (like arrogant Heavenly) actually do for SLT. You think things are bad now with jobs, roads, etc....what it would it be like for our restaurants and lodging properties if Heavenly loses another 200,000 skier visits like it has the past two years. Look at their stock filings; two years ago they had over 1 million skier visits. Last year they had 819,000. Yeah Vail lost, but so did our community when the cash registers did not ka-ching so much. Since Vail took over Heavenly pass sales have gone from approx 5,000 to over 20,000. ASC did not do that. Nor did the Japanese ownership. That came due to Vail lowering the prices from over $600 to $279 in 2002. Lodging sales are down due to the national economy, gaming competition from the Indian casinos,less flights into Reno and a large reduction in advertising and marketing by the LTVA, casinos, and regional ski resorts. Parker, get your facts straight, understand the real reasons this town is going down the crapper and what businesses (like arrogant Heavenly) actually do for SLT. You think things are bad now with jobs, roads, etc….what it would it be like for our restaurants and lodging properties if Heavenly loses another 200,000 skier visits like it has the past two years. Look at their stock filings; two years ago they had over 1 million skier visits. Last year they had 819,000. Yeah Vail lost, but so did our community when the cash registers did not ka-ching so much.

]]> By: Parker http://www.laketahoenews.net/2009/12/heavenly-almost-lives-up-to-its-name/comment-page-1/#comment-1077 Parker Sun, 27 Dec 2009 04:27:49 +0000 http://www.laketahoenews.net/?p=6487#comment-1077 And whoops typo-I meant arrogant! And has Vail brought more people town?? Skier visits at Heavenly are up, but that's a function of pass sales (again something 1st initiated by ASC). Skier visits count each time a pass holder goes-one pass holder goes 30 times, that's 30 skier visits! As far as more people coming to town since the Vail purchase, well lodging numbers are down and that trend started before the economy went south! And whoops typo-I meant arrogant! And has Vail brought more people town?? Skier visits at Heavenly are up, but that’s a function of pass sales (again something 1st initiated by ASC). Skier visits count each time a pass holder goes-one pass holder goes 30 times, that’s 30 skier visits! As far as more people coming to town since the Vail purchase, well lodging numbers are down and that trend started before the economy went south!

]]> By: Parker http://www.laketahoenews.net/2009/12/heavenly-almost-lives-up-to-its-name/comment-page-1/#comment-1076 Parker Sun, 27 Dec 2009 04:20:27 +0000 http://www.laketahoenews.net/?p=6487#comment-1076 Well if they give to local charities that contradicts Blaise's own words. He does profess to give directly to certain locals, but I know the Rotarians and Kiwanians amongst many others are left empty handed. And to quote!!!! Blaise-"We will not give to any local charity! Because when you give to that charity, they get credit and we don't!!" I saw the email where he stated that and I was at a meeting where he reaffirmed that! Well at least we agree he's arrogoant! And I know the Heavenly Ski Foundation sure doesn't find them as helpful as the previous owners! Well if they give to local charities that contradicts Blaise’s own words. He does profess to give directly to certain locals, but I know the Rotarians and Kiwanians amongst many others are left empty handed.

And to quote!!!! Blaise-”We will not give to any local charity! Because when you give to that charity, they get credit and we don’t!!” I saw the email where he stated that and I was at a meeting where he reaffirmed that! Well at least we agree he’s arrogoant!

And I know the Heavenly Ski Foundation sure doesn’t find them as helpful as the previous owners!

]]> By: Greg Gunnin http://www.laketahoenews.net/2009/12/heavenly-almost-lives-up-to-its-name/comment-page-1/#comment-1075 Greg Gunnin Sun, 27 Dec 2009 04:05:08 +0000 http://www.laketahoenews.net/?p=6487#comment-1075 Wrong Parker, they provide 4 scholarships a year to high school seniors. Each scholarship is a 4-year give. In addition, they donate food to Bread and Broth, provide free skiing and lessons to 5th graders each year, and give annually to Christmas Cheer. They also bought 10's of 1000's of skiers to town by lowering their season passes when Vail took over. Yes, this lined their pockets and it was for business reasons but locals benefited by getting lower season passes and more tourists to drive the economy. Yes, they are arrogant and that needs fixing but don't expect that to change as long as Blaise is here. He'll never be a John Rice. Wrong Parker, they provide 4 scholarships a year to high school seniors. Each scholarship is a 4-year give. In addition, they donate food to Bread and Broth, provide free skiing and lessons to 5th graders each year, and give annually to Christmas Cheer.
They also bought 10′s of 1000′s of skiers to town by lowering their season passes when Vail took over. Yes, this lined their pockets and it was for business reasons but locals benefited by getting lower season passes and more tourists to drive the economy.
Yes, they are arrogant and that needs fixing but don’t expect that to change as long as Blaise is here. He’ll never be a John Rice.

]]> By: Parker http://www.laketahoenews.net/2009/12/heavenly-almost-lives-up-to-its-name/comment-page-1/#comment-1074 Parker Sun, 27 Dec 2009 03:35:48 +0000 http://www.laketahoenews.net/?p=6487#comment-1074 FYI, it was ASC (in its last season of ownership) that first brought the discounted season passes in. And it's the arrogant attitude that emanates from Heavenly that turns everyone off! They donate to ZERO local charities, their executives are notorious for going into local establishments and causing a fit if they see a Sierra or Kirkwood banner, and yet to quote Blaise, he states "We don't have any competition at the Lake!" Many thought having Vail purchase Heavenly would be a benefit to the town, but the company only brought the Vail prices, not the Vail quality! FYI, it was ASC (in its last season of ownership) that first brought the discounted season passes in. And it’s the arrogant attitude that emanates from Heavenly that turns everyone off! They donate to ZERO local charities, their executives are notorious for going into local establishments and causing a fit if they see a Sierra or Kirkwood banner, and yet to quote Blaise, he states “We don’t have any competition at the Lake!”

Many thought having Vail purchase Heavenly would be a benefit to the town, but the company only brought the Vail prices, not the Vail quality!

]]> By: Antoinette http://www.laketahoenews.net/2009/12/heavenly-almost-lives-up-to-its-name/comment-page-1/#comment-1070 Antoinette Sat, 26 Dec 2009 22:54:49 +0000 http://www.laketahoenews.net/?p=6487#comment-1070 Whew! Sounds like some of your readers are Vail haters! Personally, I think Heavenly is SO much better since Vail took it over than back when ASC had it, and the Japanese Corp before them. I wouldn't ski there. Got tired of being sneered at by rude liftees. Season passes are also MUCH cheaper now that Vail owns it. So drink one beer instead of two. Or bring an old bota bag! Whew! Sounds like some of your readers are Vail haters! Personally, I think Heavenly is SO much better since Vail took it over than back when ASC had it, and the Japanese Corp before them. I wouldn’t ski there. Got tired of being sneered at by rude liftees. Season passes are also MUCH cheaper now that Vail owns it. So drink one beer instead of two. Or bring an old bota bag!

]]> By: Greg Gunnin http://www.laketahoenews.net/2009/12/heavenly-almost-lives-up-to-its-name/comment-page-1/#comment-1068 Greg Gunnin Sat, 26 Dec 2009 21:38:51 +0000 http://www.laketahoenews.net/?p=6487#comment-1068 Word has it that Vail Resorts Inc. has made two offers to buy the "hole in the ground" within the past 4 weeks. The first offer was rejected and they sweetened the offer on the second one. So, while you may not like Heavenly, they could help fix a problem we have and provide some jobs and more tourists to add to the local economy. Word has it that Vail Resorts Inc. has made two offers to buy the “hole in the ground” within the past 4 weeks. The first offer was rejected and they sweetened the offer on the second one. So, while you may not like Heavenly, they could help fix a problem we have and provide some jobs and more tourists to add to the local economy.

]]> By: Steve http://www.laketahoenews.net/2009/12/heavenly-almost-lives-up-to-its-name/comment-page-1/#comment-1066 Steve Sat, 26 Dec 2009 19:38:54 +0000 http://www.laketahoenews.net/?p=6487#comment-1066 Any business that has the gall and greed to charge $9 for a (draft) beer cannot and should not be trusted. And the only time they come to a city council meeting is when they want something that will fatten their profits. Any business that has the gall and greed to charge $9 for a (draft) beer cannot and should not be trusted. And the only time they come to a city council meeting is when they want something that will fatten their profits.

]]> By: Chuck Halladay http://www.laketahoenews.net/2009/12/heavenly-almost-lives-up-to-its-name/comment-page-1/#comment-1063 Chuck Halladay Sat, 26 Dec 2009 18:33:00 +0000 http://www.laketahoenews.net/?p=6487#comment-1063 Lake Tahoe News Editor: Vail. What a joke. I have never seen a corporation rip the heart out of a resort the way these jokers have. I pray for a return to the mediocrity that American Ski Company brought us. (Having the Japanese Family back: Priceless!) Vail has blown more hot air up our skirts than all other Heavenly administrations combined. Wind power, my ass. There's not a commercial turbine within 150 miles. Now I hear the rumor that they're going to build an on mountain lodge. I can only assume that its just like the one they were going to build 3 or 4 years ago that never happened. It will be just like that new quad that they built to replaced the old Olympic and Northbowl chairs. Oh, but that didn't happen, either. Its just like 'North America's largest snow making system'. Here's some news for you Vail; Try turning it on. To quote the article: "A bit more snowmaking ... could be used on some of the trails. And the resort could improve marking the rocks and other obstacles." Rocks and obstacles? Have you skied the Face, lately? It would be next to impossible to mark all of the rocks and obstacles on the Face and many other "open" runs. And let's not forget the endless stream of misinformation they call a website. It's more like an excuse to cover up their incredible shortcomings. Lies, lies and more lies. Then you're told to call someone else to confirm the information you just read. Another joke? What about all that great organic food they brought in last year? The joke is on us... Kathryn Reed, thank you so much for this news site. We have been so sorely lacking a real news portal/paper, daily or otherwise. Perhaps you could do a story on all of the youth and/or community programs Vail has brought to us...OK, well, not so much there...How about something, well, anything that Vail has done to improve our community? Do they give back in a meaningful way at all? In my opinion, these marketing blow hards have done nothing except to take the casinos' ruthless tactics and apply them to the best mountain in Tahoe. Happy employees? Just ask a few next time you're up on the mountain. How can you be happy making $8 when the living wage is $11? Making 70% of what it takes to pay the bills equals overcrowded housing, poverty and crime. That $82 dollar cover charge doesn't trickle down past the profit takers? Kae Reed, I implore you to expose Vail for what they are, ruthless corporate mercenaries who use our community as fodder. Perhaps a simple compare and contrast report on Bail vs. Sierra and/or Kirkwood would bring out the truth for all to see. Thanks again, for your efforts building this site. Happy Trails, Chuck Halladay Lake Tahoe News Editor:

Vail. What a joke. I have never seen a corporation rip the heart out of a resort the way these jokers have. I pray for a return to the mediocrity that American Ski Company brought us. (Having the Japanese Family back: Priceless!)

Vail has blown more hot air up our skirts than all other Heavenly administrations combined. Wind power, my ass. There’s not a commercial turbine within 150 miles.

Now I hear the rumor that they’re going to build an on mountain lodge. I can only assume that its just like the one they were going to build 3 or 4 years ago that never happened. It will be just like that new quad that they built to replaced the old Olympic and Northbowl chairs. Oh, but that didn’t happen, either.

Its just like ‘North America’s largest snow making system’. Here’s some news for you Vail; Try turning it on. To quote the article: “A bit more snowmaking … could be used on some of the trails. And the resort could improve marking the rocks and other obstacles.”

Rocks and obstacles? Have you skied the Face, lately? It would be next to impossible to mark all of the rocks and obstacles on the Face and many other “open” runs.

And let’s not forget the endless stream of misinformation they call a website. It’s more like an excuse to cover up their incredible shortcomings. Lies, lies and more lies. Then you’re told to call someone else to confirm the information you just read. Another joke? What about all that great organic food they brought in last year? The joke is on us…

Kathryn Reed, thank you so much for this news site. We have been so sorely lacking a real news portal/paper, daily or otherwise.

Perhaps you could do a story on all of the youth and/or community programs Vail has brought to us…OK, well, not so much there…How about something, well, anything that Vail has done to improve our community? Do they give back in a meaningful way at all?

In my opinion, these marketing blow hards have done nothing except to take the casinos’ ruthless tactics and apply them to the best mountain in Tahoe.

Happy employees? Just ask a few next time you’re up on the mountain. How can you be happy making $8 when the living wage is $11? Making 70% of what it takes to pay the bills equals overcrowded housing, poverty and crime. That $82 dollar cover charge doesn’t trickle down past the profit takers?

Kae Reed, I implore you to expose Vail for what they are, ruthless corporate mercenaries who use our community as fodder. Perhaps a simple compare and contrast report on Bail vs. Sierra and/or Kirkwood would bring out the truth for all to see.

Thanks again, for your efforts building this site.

Happy Trails,

Chuck Halladay

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